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Rearranging Categories (again)

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#18

Okay, I see there is a lot to discuss.

I don’t get this one.

Wouldn’t that be Technologies > App Tips in your proposal?

Why move this out of AltOSes?

I think this would make more sense in market.

This is a release ready for use and the topic is not about developing.


#19

I’d like to see this from a forum visitor’s perspective:

  • I need help with something -> Category Help
  • I want to discover new things -> Community (for things that concern Fairphoners) or Technologies (for things that concern the electronics industry or the internet, etc.)

So when I need help with my SailfishOS installation, I go to Help > AltOSes. When I want to find out about the various OSes that I can install on my Fairphone (this is before the trouble starts :wink: ) I go to the Community > Developing category. I wouldn’t see this category as solely for software in development, but also for releases (is software ever finished?).

:+1: Yep, and I hope that others also take a bit of their time and give their thoughts, so that we can reach a better result together.


#20

I’m with you up until here.

I just think it makes more sense to say:

  • I need help with an issue I already have -> Help
  • I need help with finding out how to install another OS or finding out whether it’s even what I want to do -> Operating Systems (I wouldn’t look in Community for that).
  • I want to meet, join or discuss something “off-topic” with the community -> Community

I think it makes sense to keep topics where developers discuss the development in Developing and topics where users discuss the usage of the usable operating system in Operating Systems/Alternative OSes (whatever the name).


#21

Be honest - you just want it to be an even number of categories! :wink: Joking aside, here is a proposal that takes into account your critque:

Super-Category Sub-Category
Community
  • Local
  • DIY
  • Developing
  • Beta
Operating Systems
  • App Tips
Industry Change (?)
  • Fairphone (incl. Blogs)
Help (mostly individual requests)
  • FP1
  • Android 6
  • LOS
  • Open
  • AltOSes
  • Modules & Peripherals
  • Guides (including Repair Guides)
Market
  • Wanted
  • Offered
Meta […]

Ad an earlier proposed “Technology” category

@paulakreuzer You said you didn’t understand my proposal for a category called “Technology”. My aim was to give the #community category a sharper profile. Thus I’d like to find a new home for these and similar topics because they do not directly concern the Fairphone community*:

At the moment they are just “parked” in #community because we put everything there that doesn’t fit somewhere else.

Ad Developing category

I’d like to make it more visible that the developers are also part of the Fairphone community. Thus my idea to move the sub-category to the #community category.

Ad Operating Systems

If we have Help categories for the OSes, we don’t need respective sub-categories in an Operating Systems category, IMHO. There aren’t so many general discussions per OS. Plus, unlike Help topics, in general the topics in the current #software category and its sub-categories are well-described in their title and it is clear which OS they are talking about.

Ad “Industry Change” (?)

Maybe we just have to define the #fairphone-road-map category a little bit broader to also allow for (smartphone/internet/electronics) industry related topics. Then we might not need a sub-category specifically for Fairphone. It wouldn’t hurt though, IMO.


PS.: Please also let’s not forget to revise the category slugs. They are inconsistent and also quite long in the present form: #fairphone-help vs. #fairphone2help etc.


* I see the #community category more like a “meta” category, where we discuss about the community, their work, their opinions etc.


#22

This makes no sense to me. What do apps have to do with Operating Systems?

Why a super category with only one sub-category?

This doesn’t make a lot of sense to me either. Why do we need sub-help categories for the individual OSes? If there is a bug in an OS it should be discussed in the bugtracker, issues not caused by the OS can be discussed in a more general help category and if you just have an issue because you don’t know how to use a function of an OS it should go into OSes.

PS: I missed the lower part of your post.

That explains the super-category for roadmap/fairphone.
I just think there will always be topics that don’t fit anywhere else, so some kind of “off-topic” category should exist. I don’t mind that not being the community category.
In other categories there is the possibility to post topics without specifying any category. Maybe that would be an option for us too? At first I thought it looked strange, but I’ve gotten used to it.

I like the idea.

Yeah because the general discussion takes place in a few long topics instead of lots of short topics.


Okay here is my new proposal for super-categories based on what you want your intention is for posting/reading on the forum:

  • you want to ask for help -> Help
  • you want to find guides -> Guides (would include all guides, all topics should be 1-post-topics and it would be structured by cross-linking and tagging)
  • you want to meet, join or contribute to the community -> Community
  • you want to talk about the company -> Fairphone/Company/Roadmap/whatever
  • you have a general questions -> General
  • you want to discuss something unrelated to Fairphone -> Unrelated
  • you want to buy/sell -> Market
  • you want to discuss the forum itself -> Meta

That way there could be OS specific help-sub categories like you suggested while guides on installing/updating/using the OSes would be in Guides.
General would be for questions/discussions about the product (including all the “should I buy it?” and “does it have function x?” topics), an OS (“does x work on this OS?”, “is this OS ready for daily use?”) or any other general questions related to Fairphone.
General + Unrelated could also both just be uncategorized or joined with the Roadmap category in a super category.


#24

In the early days (Nov 2015) the #fairphone-road-map category was called “Fairness” and the #community category was called "Fairphone Café.

What about a new Café* category alongside the #community category? I imagine it could work a bit like this**:

Super Category Sub-categories
Café
  • The Phones
  • The Company
  • The Software

Anything that’s not directly connected to any of the phone products (FP1/FP2), the company itself or an OS/#apprecommendations would go into the super category.


Revised proposal

I’ll copy in a revised complete proposal:

Super-Category Sub-Category
Community
  • Local
  • DIY
  • Developing
  • Beta
Café
  • The Company
  • The Phone
  • The Software
  • Blogs?
Help (mostly individual requests)
  • FP1
  • Android 6
  • LOS
  • Open
  • AltOSes
  • Modules & Peripherals
Guides
Market
  • Wanted
  • Offered
Meta […]

Note that Repair, Hardware, Roadmap and Software categories would be most affected by this (I think :thinking:).

Testing with real topics

Topic Current category Proposed Category
✏ How to handle water damage Hardware > Repairs Guides
✏ List of local repair shops that are familiar with Fairphones (by City) Hardware > Repairs :question: Guides or Help
FP2 water damage Hardware > Repairs Help > Modules & Peripherals
✏ Collection of cases for the Fairphone 2 (FP2) Hardware > DIY Café > The Phone
FP Open OS and LineageOS FP2 high quality micro SD cards Hardware Café > The Phone
Top module 2nd version code still FP-REC01? Hardware Café > The Phone
My slim cover has cracks already Hardware Help > Modules & Peripherals
Which external microphone can I use Hardware Café > The Phone
Fixing the FP2 headphone socket Hardware > Repairs Community > DIY
FP2 Microphone and Headphones jack do not work Hardware > Repairs Help > Modules & Peripherals
Current Support Status Road Map Café > The Company
Why is it so hard to support alternative (FLOSS) OSes? Road Map Café > The Software
No U.S. Fairphone? Road Map Café > The Company
Fairphone 3 should be an Android One device Road Map Café > The Phone
Great things ahead? (8th May '18 -> Transparent Slim Covers) Road Map Café > The Company
Fairphone 2.5 core upgrade Road Map Café > The Phone
Introducing the official bugtracker Software Café > The Software
Recommendations for MP3 player apps that display album art? Software Café > The Software
Android 6.0 Marshmallow / 7 Nougat for FP2? Software Café > The Software

Remaining Questions (FMPOV)

grafik


*Actually something very Austrian: :grin:

** Though I would avoid the namings “General” and “Unrelated” because they are not self-explanatory.


#25

We’re getting closer :slight_smile: (to finding common ground among just the two of us :wink:).

I just have a few points of criticism left.
E.g.: I don’t feel the articles for the Café sub-categories. Especially “The Software”.

Why do you think we need this separate from FP2 help?

To avoid confusion (is this a guide or not?) we could make a super category for all wikis and a sub-category for wikis.

I fully agree with these. :+1: I think the rule should be: Fixing something that got broken -> help. “Fixing”/Improving something that doesn’t work for everybody the way it is designed -> DIY.

I also agree with the rest of your examples btw. :slight_smile:


#26

Since you asked: I can’t make myself care about it enough to spend time on it.


#27

Ok, thanks for the honesty! :+1: Im just worried that in the end people, who are accustomed to the status quo, are confused or point out inconsistencies that @paulakreuzer and me hadn’t considered.


#28

I don’t feel a need for change, but if you do, feel free to act, I’ll just adapt :wink: .


#29

Do you want to discriminate the little article??? :scream: I’m not insisting on it, but at least for phone and company it would make it clear that the category is not about each and every phone, but about Fairphone’s product. I’m fine without it, too. :slight_smile:

Oh, do you mean that we simply should have a structure like this, where issues with the Google-infected OS and with the hardware go into a “general” FP2 subcategory of help (like it is now with FP2 Help)? Visual:

Super category Sub-category
Help (mostly individual requests)
  • FP1
  • FP2 (OS with Google / hardware issues)
  • OpenOS
  • LineageOS
  • Alternative OSes

I first thought that there should be one Android 6 category and one hardware category, but this setup is probably better from a non-technically-inclined FP2 user’s perspective (reason: how should one know from the first moment whether it is software or hardware failure?).

Since the ✏ List of local repair shops that are familiar with Fairphones (by City) is not a guide per-se, I’d put it where people in need would find it helpful: the Help category. The Help super category should host all such topics that aren’t guides, but are still relevant for both FP1 and FP2 (can’t think of many other topics atm).

Let me post another revised structure

Super-Category Sub-Category
Community
  • Local
  • DIY
  • Developing
  • Beta
Café
  • (The?) Company
  • (The?) Phone
  • Software & Apps
  • Blogs?
Help
  • FP1
  • FP2
  • LineageOS
  • OpenOS
  • Alternative OSes
Guides
Market
  • Wanted
  • Offered
Meta […]

Please give feedback on the remaining question marks (?). :slight_smile:


#30

I do care, but that’s not something I’m good at. I trust the people who are mods and use the forums a lot to take care of this. I never even use the categories TBH. I just look at my notifications and the recent threads…

I suppose it is important the categories work well for the new people, but also for regulars and moderators. I take it you can see the viewpoint of all 3 interest groups. I mean, someone who’s really new here ain’t gonna read this specific thread.


#31

I’m with @AnotherElk

I like the latest suggestion for Help and Guides super-categories, preferably with having the same subcategories for both.
I would also support the suggested Hardware sub-category.


#32
  • Lately I’m far more limited in the time I can spend on the forum. I’m just not finding time.
  • I personally hardly interact with the categories system. I’m curious how many people actually do. In any case, the opinion of the current users is more important than mine. My limited use is not because the system is lacking, it is more that other tools already help me get to where I want to go.

#33

I think if we wouldn’t have the categories there would be chaos on the forum. :joy: I at least use them a lot:


#34

I agree with @johannes in every aspect.
Yet, there is just one point, that makes me wonder:
Why the “super”-category Cafe?
I can understand, that it’s a local (Vienna) thing, but in general this name lacks the explanatory factor, that all the other super-categories have. Plus, just from the name, there is no evident distinction between Community and Cafe, as both names imply a social meeting point.
Therfore I would opt for another name. If I understand correct, that this category is for topics around Fairphone, but not Fairphone in itself, it’s something like a Fairphone Orbit? (Well, that - as a name - would not really be more explanatory, just more different from Community.)


#35

The categorisation of the forum just doesn’t excite me :wink:

I personally wouldn’t expend so much effort on trying to have a clean & tidy forum. While the sub-cats are useful, I don’t think that means we should always have them for each super-cat. It just means you (I say you because I never move or categorise topics) spend loads of time doing something which doesn’t necessarily mean very much to everyone.

#'s are the future

#YouAsked :wink:


#36

The name “Café” was initially @joe’s idea. He is from the US, not Austrian. :wink: I think that Café is pretty omnipresent, except in Germany, maybe:

Community might be a “social meeting point” in its use in German speaking countries. Wikipedia describes it as follows:

In my head Community is for discussions about the Fairphone community and Café is for everything else that Fairphoners want to discuss.

An alternative name for Café could be “Lounge” and for Community it could be “Movement”. (I’m not saying that we have to change both.)


#37

As long as you don’t call it coffeeshop :slight_smile: I like the word Lounge more (but whatever floats your boat); cafe and lounge would refer to casual chat. On another forum we had a place called (translated) “canteen”.


#38

I don’t interact with the categories system directly —I just check New and subscribe to those threads I like, so updates appear on Latest—. For what I’ve read here, I’m not the only one. I think moderators and categorizing-people like you both are more aware of the categories in a daily basis.

I’m specially lousy at classifying things. I always struggle at putting things in their right box (for who?). But since you are empathetic people and you are doing a thorought work considering new visitors, I’ll just make some observations, completely IMHO:

  • Since we have sub-:cat:s, we should try to keep super-:cat:s at a minimum or they will conquer us humans and generic and broad to avoid paralysis by analysis.
  • Making super-:cat:s verbs will express actions, engaging new people and embracing multiple sub-:cat:s coherently: “I came to the forum to discuss about the company and to participate in software development and local communities.
    • Discuss — Participate — Help — Market is my preference over
      Café — Community/Movement — Help — Guides? — Market.
  • Meta should dissapear be a non-verb super-:cat:, I guess, because it has enough size to not be inside Discuss.
  • Help - “Alternative OSes” could be just “Other OSes”, because LOS has a sub-:cat: of its own.

That’s all for now.