Why is it so hard to support alternative (FLOSS) OSes?

[AnotherElk]

@zilti

just start treating the smartphone as the PC it actually is

I’m very sympathetic towards your view on the smartphone, but that is a very, very niche view in my opinion.

Fairphone are running a serious business already in a niche, deliberately making the niche much smaller doesn’t seem like a well thought out idea.

Do we have Fairphone Open OS usage statistics?

yeah, and from what I last heard those numbers are stable. So for every 20 Fairphone 2’s we sell, one of them installs FP Open

LineageOS download challenge (over 1650 installations!)

LineageOS is an alternative operating system that is based on Android. At the moment it is the only option to get an Android-7-based #dic:rom on your Fairphone 2. An Android-8.1 -based release is in the making. This was mainly made possible by @chrmhoffmann, who did most of the porting, @snevas, who set up the OTA build server that facilitated updating to this point, and these great people. Now the LineageOS port for Fairphone 2 is becoming officially supported by the LineageOS team. PS.: Bro…

UBports download challenge (next target: 2,500!)

“Ubuntu Touch is the touch-friendly mobile version of Ubuntu Linux. Originally designed and developed by Canonical, the operating system now lives on in the UBports community. Which means 100% community-driven and independent.” (quote taken from the ubports homepage) Ubuntu Touch therefore is one possibility of a free and open OS without any “Google-touch” whatsoever. The Fairphone 2 is one of three “Core Devices”, which " are the devices that will receive all the new features, critical securit…

[Roboe]

@zilti

Ship a rooted phone, and if the user wants Android, ship it with a leaflet with a simple three-step instruction how to install the Google apps on it if he insists.

You are aware that Google apps are proprietary and subject to legal clauses imposed by Google, right? What you are asking for here is just illegal. Even if it wasn’t, and a user could install GMS legally, after that they would install their banking app or some comercial game and BOOM, SafetyNet wouldn’t allow them to use it because they are rooted. Android ecosystem is controlled by Google and that’s a fact, with and without GMS. But don’t worry: the Fairphone 2 bootloader comes unlocked unlike the majority of the smart devices, so of course you can install a custom recovery like TWRP right after you unpack it and treat it like whatever you personally and subjectively consider it.

@zilti

Sorry douwe, but your points are all garbage

See above? I’ve not needed to be unrespectful nor insult you through your arguments only to refute them.

For the other parts of your post, I agree with @BertG and @AnotherElk.

[zilti]

So you’re saying the OpenGApps website is illegal and should be taken down?

Also, when you install LineageOS and flash OpenGApps, it passes the SafetyNet test perfectly.

[Roboe]

@zilti

So you’re saying the OpenGApps website is illegal

Yes:

Unauthorized distribution of this software harms us just like it would any other business, […]

Also:

[…] [Google ensures] that device makers can’t simply bypass Google’s CTS and ship devices with the promise that users can simply side-load Google Play apps and services.

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@zilti

when you install LineageOS

It lacks root (optional):

We will NOT be shipping root baked into the ROM.

And your argument is unstable:

Our official stance is that we will not intentionally circumvent an integrity check that Google has put in place for app developers.

[lklaus]

Also, opengapps.org clearly states on their site:

Take note that Open GApps does not provide you with any license for Google’s APKs included in the package. The Open GApps packages merely provide a convenient way to sideload APKs to your device. It is your own responsibility to obtain the proper permissions by e.g. buying an OHA-licensed device with pre-installed Google Apps and/or acquiring the applications from Google’s Play Store.

The pre-built packages from OpenGApps.org are provided ONLY as courtesy by OpenGApps.org without warranty of ANY kind, under the terms that they can be freely used for personal use only, and are not allowed to be mirrored to the public other than OpenGApps.org.

So, Fairphone definitely cannot distribute opengapps (or any other clone)

[JeroenH]

@Roboe

But don’t worry: the Fairphone 2 bootloader comes unlocked unlike the majority of the smart device

There’s a significant amount of devices where you can unlock the bootloader. But having the device shipped with an unlocked bootloader, like FP2 has, is rare.

[Roboe]

Yes, that’s exactly what I was referring to. Multiple Android devices have passed by my hands (I’ve been #livingwogoogle for years, plus I love to revive devices with custom software) and I can tell, from easier to harder:

• [Awesome] Fairphone 2 comes unlocked. Flashing does not break your guarantee, .
• [Great] The Nexus models just unlock right away with $ fastboot oem unlock, clearing all internal data in the way (which I approve for privacy reasons), but breaking your device guarantee.
• [Good] The Samsung models don’t come with a regular Android fastboot mode, but with a proprietary “Download mode”. It is “unlocked” by any means, and Heimdall handles it great, but using it for the first time breaks your guarantee too by ticking an internal flag.
• [Incoherent] For some others (HTC, Motorola, some Huawei), I needed to contact the manufacturer via web/e-mail (time-consuming) to get an unlock code for $ fastboot oem unlock <code>, breaking the guarantee in the way. I can’t stand the feeling of asking to use a device I own. Also I don’t want to notify any company of when I plan to do anything.
• [PLAIN WRONG] For others (old ZTEs, LG Optimus 3D… can’t tell if they keep doing it that way), I needed to hack them with community tools, breaking the guarantee, the device altoghether —in some cases—, or causing buggy behaviour and unstability.

[JeroenH]

Ahh, the warranty disclaimer. Sure, its great that Fairphone isn’t anal about that but it is a lot of hot air.

I’d love to see that one in court:

Wie zijn Transformer Prime unlockt, verliest zijn garantie? - Ius Mentis

That’s a Dutch lawyer’s take on it.

So what he writes is that the shop where you buy it, still has to give you warranty regardless of you unlocking your phone.

If you buy, say, a Google Pixel from Google.nl Shop and then the device just… the screen malfunctions a few months later. Well, that means its within the first 6 months, so the burden of proof is on them. Regardless of whether the device was unlocked or not. In this case, it is Google.nl Shop who has to give warranty.

But if you bought the Google Pixel from, say, Alternate.nl (not sure they sell it but lets assume they do for sake of argument), then it is Alternate who has to give you warranty. Not Google. And if that shop would go belly up, then it is bye bye warranty. Google does not give you warranty; you didn’t buy from them.

So yeah in that regard the good advice is to buy from reputable shops who don’t go belly up instead of hunting for the cheapest.

[TobiasF]

We in Germany distinguish between Garantie and Gewährleistung.

The shop where you bought the device from has to give you two years of Gewährleistung. In the opinion of most lawyers, the Gewährleistung is not lost while rooting, unlocking or flashing.

The Garantie is a voluntary service of any length given by anyone, usually the manufacturer. The Garantie-giver can legally dictate any terms, so also the fact that Garantie is lost while rooting, unlocking or flashing.

[Roboe]

@JeroenH

That’s a Dutch lawyer’s take on it.

@TobiasF

We in Germany distinguish between Garantie and Gewährleistung .

(It’s awesome that you distinguish two words! I’d love to see that in Spanish)

I guess the terms of the shop warranty is a local law thing, and I don’t know what’s the state in Spain. But I’m pretty sure the shop warranty is two years anywhere Europe by an European directive/law/regulation/something.

[TobiasF]

The two years of Gewährleistung is EU law, so you will get Gewährleistung from every dealer in the EU. So we have Gewährleistung not only in German shops, but also in Dutch shops like the Fairphone shop. And you have two years of Gewährleistung, too, if you buy in Spain.