How much would you pay for an official Sailfish OS? (was: Would you accept ethical stores as part of the user interface of Sailfish OS on FP2?)

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Hi, visiting here from Sailfish OS community to ask a collaborative question. I’m about to present an idea on TJC, but before I do, I’d like to hear some related opinions from the WeAreFairPhone community (especially you!):

  • If an official version of Sailfish OS for Fairphone 2 would be free, would you accept the user interface to include local/global online stores with ethical goals? (This is one of the business models of Jolla in their licensing)
  • What stores might be nice to have there?
  • If you would not like to see m-commerce, how much would you possibly pay for an official version including the 3rd party parts (Android support, MS Exchange sync, XT9 tect prediction, HERE Maps)
  • Do you come up with other ideas how the community could support the deal between Fairphone and Jolla

Currently, Sailfish OS is available for all FP2 users as a community port without those commercial parts. Jolla has been kind to offer access into their app store, and has promised the access to system updates too, but the 3rd party parts are not possible without a license.

Note: I might pick some lines from the discussion here to a question at TJC (community forum by Jolla for Sailfish OS users and developers)

###EDIT: A poll added to contribute to the discussion, please vote
###EDIT2: Some calculations after some votes given, let’s discuss further with these

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Thanks for bringing this discussion up, it’s great to be in dialogue with the Sailfish OS community! :slight_smile:

It’s not clear to me, how you would include ethical online stores in the UI. Would there be preinstalled stores, or regular popups, or recurring notifications?

In any case there should be a pay version without ads. Regarding the price question: You could make a poll, similar to this one on the forum. :slight_smile:

PS: A suggestion for possible stores: http://www.buymeonce.com/

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Including stores as “Super Apps” (earlier: Partner Space), an UI soon introduced on Intex Aqua Fish in India. In practice, it brings one or two new screens next to the home screen having preinstalled stores. As a business model, it’s described here

Thanks for the poll tip @Stefan, maybe we should put one up after a few opinions like yours. Some open discussion before polling might be in place as the whole OS is new to this community, and Fairphone is somewhat unknown to TJC community. Let’s see what ideas we’ll end up with starting it together :wink: Cheers!

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Interesting topic!

I tested the alpha version of Sailfish already, and I really liked the feel of the OS. If Dual SIM would have already worked, I am sure I would have tested it longer than only over the weekend and would maybe be able already to tell if could see switching to Sailfish for good.

How does this relate to the topic: Speaking for myself, and assuming that it could be similar for other users, Sailfish is a new OS and new experience that certainly sounds like an interesting alternative to Android. But for myself, I have a strong allergy to advertisement and having this partner space prominently placed like shown in the link, would already be a no go for me. Particularly if the partner would get access to notifications so that ads could pop up would be very annoying for me. For such reasons I have installed an ad blocker on Android. Though, if I use an app longer than just for testing, and it is useful, I of course buy a pro version or donate to the devs, as of course devs need to be able to make a living from their work!

So, my personal answer if I’d like the idea of partner space is definitely NO!

This is brings me to the question of the price, if it was possible to buy Sailfish.
First, if I am not mistaken, also Android is not free. That is, Android is, but not using GMS. To my understanding mobile phone vendors pay for testing the device if they adhere to Google’s requirements, putting eventually also a price tag on the usage of GMS. I was actually just looking at the cost breakdown of the FP2 to figure out, how much FP is paying for being allowed to let GMS run on their phones by default, but couldn’t find anything. So maybe my info here is wrong, or these costs are just hidden somewhere in royalties or licenses. Anyhow, I would be super curious now to learn if and how much we are paying for running GMS on the FP2. Maybe @Douwe can shed some light on this issue?
Anyhow, let’s return to Sailfish. The article @sfossimo posted, states: “End customers, in general, are looking for well performing mobile devices for cheaper price compared to others.” I am not sure if this is true for the average FP2 customer, as the device certainly is more expensive than comparable devices. So in my opinion FP users are willing to pay for what they get, even though, maybe, this mainly refers to the hardware aspect of the phone? Not sure …
But to elaborate this from my side, I personally would definitely be willing to pay for an OS (as, through donations, I already do so e.g. on my PC). The amount is then again difficult to answer. But I may not be a typical customer. In the 5 months I have my FP2 I am already running the third OS, after stock, Sailfish alpha, now FPOSOS. And I am sure that I would also test other interesting OSs when they are ported for the FP2 (e.g. CM, or maybe even MaruOs some day; that would be super awesome). Considering this I may probably also hesitate to pay more than 15 or maybe 20 € for an OS.

So, what do I think would be a way how to get the money for licenses - and for the devs (hopefully!).

  • Personally I think I’d prefer to have testing version, that maybe runs for a month or two for free, before you need to buy a license (pretty common policy for many software solutions, isn’t it?).
  • I think @Stefan’s suggestion, having the ad version with the possibility to buy oneself out, could substitute for the above mentioned suggestion.
  • If not too much, I would be willing to buy the OS
  • An advertisement only version would be a no go for me (until someone hacked it and publishes how to get rid of the annoying ads :wink: )

Anyway, thanks for bringing up this issue!
I really liked my short Sailfish experience and I am looking forward to test another version, with working Dual SIM! :smiley:

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A very valuable comment, big thanks for that. I liked your idea of the few months test, but not sure how that would fit to an OS, regarding the install process and data loss when switching.

About the possible hacking you mentioned, I’m pretty sure it’ll happen no matter what’s the deal in the end. Some people just want it free, and hopefully they contribute back in other ways like donations / individual advertisement for new potential users etc.

ps. In my understanding (or my expression) Fairphone is actually quite cheap device, at least decently prized, when dividing the prize to the expected years of usability. I mean the actual how-much-per-each-day prize, which is pretty high in most of the phones out there, lasting / being supported just for couple of years. Not to mention those values you also pay for, regarding ethics.

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I mostly agree @freibadschwimmer in this question.

But once installed and everything configured, I don’t want to switch my OS often :wink: So I would definitely buy an ad-free, commercial version of Sailfish OS, if the price range is between 10-20€. I wouldn’t like to see non-removable ads/advertising shop sites on an operating system I use each day.

Anyway, I’m not sure if there are a lot of people willing to pay for an additional OS. So maybe there should be two versions of Sailfish OS for Fairphone, one for free without the commercial parts (like the community port now) and one including commercial parts like MS Exchange sync and so on?
Or another idea I have, what if you would pay only for the additional apps (with the commercial parts) you need in the jolla app store, e.g. 5€ for the MS Exchange app…? :slight_smile:

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Hello,

I would definitely pay one time for a Sailfish OS License. The Question is the price. But like the other community member said, 20€ are worth to pay for it. I would really prefer If I could purchase the FP2 with Sailfish OS already installed.Because I am just waiting for an official version to purchase the FP2. Cant wait :]

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I liked your idea of the few months test, but not sure how that would
fit to an OS, regarding the install process and data loss when
switching.

I have used some apps that are free of ads during the trial period and once it is over the ads start to appear. So instead of disabling the OS it could just start showing ads if you do not buy the “pemium” or “full” version/license.

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Good, let’s have that as one option in a future poll suggested by @Stefan

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I’m currently using a Jolla OTH and would pay for SailfishOS on the Fairphone if it included Dalvik.

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20€ would be fine for me too. Another idea is that the free version has a lock for uninstalling ad apps which gets unlocked after purchasing the pro-version. Maybe there could be an option to uninstall all of them at once.
The payment could be like in TitaniumBackup where you have to fund a minimal price to get the license but also with the option to fund more. Especially funding might be practically because you don’t have to pay taxes but I don’t know who is able to apply for it.
I really liked the alpha version and I can’t wait to get the full sailfish OS.

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In my mind it is absolutely important to be able to test the OS before you’re asked to decide whether you want to buy it or not. I could imagine that it might be a big hurdle for interested people if they had to make that decision before the installation, i.e., before knowing if they like the OS or not.

On the other hand, the amount of Fairphoners willing to pay for an ad-free OS might be a bit higher than usual, as the awareness of data privacy and the desire to be in control over your device are higher, in general. Personally, I second what everyone else has said, I would be willing to pay something like 20 Euros or so, while an ad-loaded version would definitely be a no-go for me.

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A bit late here, but I have a few thoughts to add. The models suggested above all sound fair. I’d put ny vote on free without ads for a week or two, then ad sponsored until you pay for a license to remove the ads permanently. I am also one of those users that have been waiting for sailfish to buy a fairphone 2, so I hope for the seperate path of buying phone with sailfish installed and payed for from the box.

If I payed for a license seperately, I wouldn’t see a problem with a higher price than suggested. 50 euros would not have me hesitating. If it included updates for the devices full life that’s not a bad deal.

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I also would pay for the license stuff.
The best way would be to pay for each license separately, but i this would complicate the handling.
I need the exchange connectivity (for business cases) but did not need here or android stuff.
Otherwise i would also pay onetime charge of 50 € for all licenses together.
The split of license fee would allow to add more licensed software (if necessary) for some one who need it without replace the ‘old’ billing model.
To the test installation i think it should be easy to build a license free supported version (this could be used also for a test installation) and the above described license model.
A time limited license model would complicate the handling.
I also by conform that any kind of ‘must use stores/partner spaces’ is a ‘no go’ for me.
This is one of the big reasons to switch from google android an apple iphone to SailfishOS.
On this OS i must not use any application from jolla (without the OS part ;-)).

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Thanks for asking in the forum, @sfossimo. I’m also very interested in having Sailfish OS with Android-App support. At the moment I use the original FP2-OS and will only switch if Sailfish OS is officially supported with all features (like Dual-SIM etc.).

1 - Concerning your first point: I’d also be a little sceptical about the integration of online shops in the user interface. I don’t know how this commercial feature is used in current Sailfish-Devices, but being placed to prominent without the possibility to be removed (let’s say: from the Homescreen) would be to annoying. So, I have to agree with the other comments.

2 - Nevertheless: if you wanted to do such cooperations with online stores and only preinstall their shopping apps, I guess the ethical-shop-scene is too fragmented in Europe. You need different ones for different countries. I could only speak for Germany. For me, the only “bigger” stores with an ethical/ fairtrade approach that come to mind are:

– https://www.avocadostore.de/ - a joint marketplace for ethical fashion.
– http://www.memo.de/ http://www.memolife.de/ - everyday products and especially office supplies
– https://www.waschbaer.de/ - quite similar to memo, less office focus though
– http://www.manufactum.de/ - long enduring products, focus hardware

3 - As I said: I would prefer not to have ads but pay some amount for an official version. 20€ would be perfectly fine with me, the 50€ mentioned by @jaywalk sounded rather high when I read that. Yet, on second thought it probably depends on what you get for that: for the 3rd party parts about 20€ sound reasonable. But on top of that I would love to have some kind of guarantee of constant updates and further development of the OS - so I would pay more for that. I think it’s crucial, that Sailfish OS for FP2 will be up-to-date for at least those 5 years that FP aims to have the phones used (and I also intend to use my phone that long).

4 - Well, there is always the possibility of crowdfunding, of course. I think the joint efforts of Jolla and Faiphone match together perfectly. For this joint venture I would think that there should be organisations with similar values that might be convinced to help, be it with some sort of technical support or maybe even with financing.

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I rather ment 20€ for an unlimited version, not “per year”. I would think twice before paying more than 50€. I am convinced that you’d have a higher income when having a lower price because less people would pay a price like that. It’s nothing like “hey, let’s buy it spontaniously”. For that, 50€ is definitely too high…

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Thanks for all your comments! The discussion has been valuable for my idea, and the WeAreFairphone community (not too familiar to me yet) seems to show some common values. To wrap things up:

  • In general, the idea of having any ad-like content seems to be quite unwanted among the users here, even if that would make the operating system free
  • The suggestions on prize of the commercial parts have been 10-50€ for the services up to 50€ including constant updates for the os
  • Opinion on testing before buying has gathered a lot of likes and support

From a business point of view, any solution bringing income either directly or over time are probably ok for all the parties, and reasonable prize when having no ads seems to be accepted by this community. I was about to suggest an idea with some ethical store partnerships for Jolla and a free os for FP2 users via those, but now it seems I should suggest an idea of a prize for delivering an os with no advertisement. Listening to all of you, let’s see what I’ll end up with :slight_smile:

About the prize, let’s wrap up a suggestion for that then. I’m thinking about:

  • Having all the Sailfish OS commercial parts packed in
  • Having official customer support via Fairphone
  • Having a quarantee of no ads added to the user interface over time
  • Having constant updates from Jolla for their OS for the expected lifespan of FP2 (5 years), which would mean about 40 system updates following the past average gap between releases

Now what would the above be worth, including one month free testing period with the full experience?

  • Subscription fee between 5-9€ / year
  • Subscription fee between 10-19€ / year
  • Subscription fee between 20-39€ / year
  • Subscritpion fee between 40-59€ / year
  • One time prize between 20-39€
  • One time prize between 40-59€
  • One time prize between 60-79€
  • One time prize between 80-99€

0 voters

Show results

Note: This poll is only for this discussion and maybe to find a common understanding around the prize. This is not the end of the discussion here, let’s try to find one fair prize to discuss further on

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@sfossimo You should reference this poll in your first post (e.g. edit it and put a link to the poll there)! :slight_smile:

Regarding the following:

This would kind of contradict the idea of Fairphone, namely not only providing updates until the end of the expected lifespan of a phone, but also afterwards, when there is still a considerable amount of working phones out there.

So IMO the updates should not be limited to some expected lifespan, but to the number of active phones (e.g. no updates any more, when user base drops below X users).

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Thanks for the tip @Stefan, a link added now. I guess the user base might be even one, as those updates should be developed anyway for all the Sailfish OS devices in the future, so maybe not so important to edit.
And thanks @goody, the poll was reposted with new options after only 2 votes and your valuable comments

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It’s a bit a pity one can only make one vote. I could imagine both, a subscription or a one time price. :slight_smile:

Usually I hate subscription concepts for software, because if I pay for it, I want to own it.
However, with an OS I see it a bit different, since I might also want to change it again :slight_smile:

Anyhow, I’m curious already where this going to. Looking forward to see the results.

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