I’m not really interested in Sailfish OS for the Fairphone, but since you asked for store recommendations, I’d like to mention Ecosto in Finland (ecosto.fi).
How much would you pay for an official Sailfish OS? (was: Would you accept ethical stores as part of the user interface of Sailfish OS on FP2?)
It’s great to see this kind of conversation.
I would like to share some thoughts of mine.
Sure. I would pay for the sailfish in the FP2 if:
- Fairphone contributes and shares partially the cost with me as a customer. At the moment I don’t have a Fairphone. And it will be interesting for me only if it runs the complete sailfish OS.
- Jolla compromises providing updates for the OS, but also to take care of the code from the community port. If I’m paying for it. I want that all the hardware can be used as expected. And if there is a problem I want to get support from either Fairphone or Jolla.
Jolla and Fairphone should think about the long term and contribute to each other. I think it’s a great opportunity for all parties.
Fairphone becomes not only a great third party OS (I mean no android or IOS) but also the whole community and customers of Jolla.
For Jolla it’s a great opportunity to get their OS in a new Hardware. The Jolla-phone is three years old which is not sold anymore, there are just a few tablets and the new project for India could not be reached by customers in Europe.
PS: I apologize for my rusty English.
I disagree completely. This would mean Fairphone would spend money of people who bought their phone for completely different reasons (like those in the Fairphone Roadmap) on a completely new kind of project. If Fairphone wanted to spend money on this, it should have been clear when I payed for my FP2.
I have all respect for these kind of projects, but I’m not interested in them. I got a Fairphone because of the conflict minerals and worker conditions. If the company would now start spending its money on projects in a whole different field of interest, this would be quite disappointing for me. Because I’m convinced there is more than enough work to do / money to spend on these two first subjects.
If you want Jolla on your phone, I can only encourage you to support them. But don’t ask to spend my money too
I’m sorry that you miss understood me. I’m not expecting that Fairphone spends money on Jolla. Neither that they pay for licences for devices that are already sold. Or that they take money from their “fair project” for fancy software.
What I meant is: Fairphone as company has also a profit margin (I think it is currently 10€ for each phone). They could invest a part of their profit margin that they will become when I buy them a phone with a Sailfish OS from fabric. I repeat invest. From my point of view: They could win by selling more devices that otherwise they would not sell. You can see it as a marketing strategy.
Intentionally I didn’t say any numbers. If Fairphone recognizes that they will also profit from having this OS. And not only me, but also they support this project. It shows me their interest to work on the long term and gives me as customer some security that the project will be kept on.
But, as I said before is just my point of view. I have no desire to provoke anyone here
I think of a subscription model as most reliable and sustainable. It’s an incentive for the developer to keep the software updated to keep those subscriptions active
Mathematical averages after 50 votes: 16€ / year subscription, or 32€ one time fee. In my opinion this also looks like a nice compromise for all parties to think about for an ad free, privacy oriented system on a fair device. What do you think?
Based on some heavy assumptions (!) for running expenses (customer support, further development, investments to set things up and reasonable profits) I’d guess that one time fee of 32€ would require 50-60k new customers, and 16€ yearly subscription fee would require 30-34k new customers. Offering both options, maybe 40-45k then.
Do you think sales like that could be reached already during the first year with only marketing along other options, price of the phone being either 557€ or 525€+16€/y?
My opinion: Sounds pretty expensive when one hears it for the first time, but after thinking some further that is not bad price at all. Breaking the whole price (device + OS), assuming five years of usability and additional 200€ into spare/upgrade parts, the one time price suggested would make all together 12€/month. Any time if you ask me! Let’s hear it from you then?
Please note: These prices and assumptions are for this discussion only, to be used as a base for opinions. They are not to be used as suggestions for any party. I’m merely interested on how the Fairphone community feels about this before suggesting anything to Sailfish OS community, as was the original idea of this thread
Fairphone wants to sell 140.000 phones per year, so your estimation would make 20-40% of all phones sold this year. It seems like a lot to me. On the other hand there is a bunch of people that have stated that they will only buy a FP2 if it has Sailfish OS on it. The existing Sailfish OS community are potential buyers of the FP2 too.
Can you make an estimation on how many Sailfish OS users are out there, and how many of them have a phone (Jolla?) older than 2 years?
I’d really like to see those amounts on top of FP:s current estimations (140k with the current options + 45k with Sailfish OS). I don’t have any numbers of Jolla Phone users, but I’ve got an impression that there is a significant amount of potential customers due to that the OS itself has been found nice and those users are just looking for devices on which it would be available.
As a side note: Next community port (alpha2) will start preliminary testing in a small test group on the next week, and will be published later depending on possible fixes needed (no schedule for that right now)
as a Nokia N9 user who recently lost this awesome phone, and being a bit late to get a jolla phone I had to find another product. Besides the idea of a fair phone another reason for choosing the Fairphone was the information that Sailfish OS should be ported to Fairphone.
Besides the mentioned arguments I also like the idea of a European based project/product, for the reason that I believe that privacy and data protection have a higher importance here, and even if Sailfish is not open source, I feel much more comfortable with an European OS.
I just got my Fairphone, and the delivered software seems to have severe problems. Seems to me that competence in hardware does not mean competence in software, and vice versa.
So I will try Sailfish the next days.
I would not hesitate to pay 50 Euro once, or 20 Euro per year, but I would at least consider also 100/40 Euro.
Count me here (having my Jolla since launch in November 2013), my wife (she has her Jolla since 2 years…now with slightly broken glass but still working) WE WANT A FAIRPHONE 2 but ONLY with SAILFISHOS + Android support please!!! If this won’t happen rather soon we’ll go for some other vendors with SailfishOS like Tuning phone, Intex or Mii-phone! However Fairphone2 is still our choice number 1 since we and quite many of our friends like the idea behind Fairphone but we dislike the Android user interface!!! Of course we’d like to use Google services as little as possible but we needed to install PlayStore and other Android stores on our Jolla phone’s and Jolla tablet because of certain apps. Nevertheless privacy and ease of use have the most priority on a mobile device in my opinion. So please provide SailfishOS officially to be shipped when ordering Fairphone2 - hopefully soon!!! Regards, S.
I agree. The moment there is a fairphone with SFOS+commercial components I’m buying one :).
(On the top of my mind the most important to me are android support and text typing prediction)
I mostly agree with what the previous speakers had to say. I do not want to be the product sold to advertisement companies. As still a proud owner of a N9 I would like to see a similar UI on my phone (I find android a little fiddly).
However as one main goal of Fairphone is product lifetime I am sceptical towards a third party “buy once” OS. If third party at all I would be more interested in a support contract kind of deal in which I could rely one a stable and secure OS for my phone in a similar way as the Linux Distros do with their Long-term support / Extended Support Release ect. versions. For that I would pay regularly.
I don’t like monthly/yearly payments; got enough of those as it is. I don’t want to pay in that way for software either. I like the “lifetime” options. If the product is not sustainable though that means money wasted. Although I don’t like monthly/yearly payments, I also understand support costs money, so I did vote for 10-20 EUR p/year.
The way to finance I propose: escrow service where people donate the money to. When goal is reached, product starts; else, people get their money back. You could do this via something like Kickstarter but I don’t know how much % they take and if they’re considered ethical enough by FP community, FP business, and Jolla business.
Anything new on this one, @sfossimo?
About €25 seems fair. If it includes the non-free elements of Sailfish as well.
Will need it fairly soon, my Jolla phone starting to pack up
While these price examples sound very reasonable to me, personally I somehow doubt that the amount of new customers will get reached (at least in 2016). Moreover, I also think that in 2017, but certainly in 2018, FP2 will increasingly be considered as an old phone (from the hardware specs), and that the amount of new customers might decrease steadily.
The subscription model here assumes approximately a two year usage, which I guess sounds reasonable, but could also be calculated for a bit longer period (maybe 2,5 years on average, or even 3?), I guess. For me personally I might prefer a subscription model, because I am not convinced if I would stay with an OS over several years (would be a novelty for me ;-)), as I might also try another one (if another one gets released). But I could imagine, on the other hand, that for other customers the subscription model might still be more interesting than a one time purchase, and sticking longer to SF than for 2 years. However, the poll suggests that users tend to prefer a one time purchase.
Of course it will be interesting to see how many FP2s will have been sold by the end of the year, but considering that FP was calculating to sell 140k phones per year, I have the feeling that also this target seems a bit ambitious, and then it would still mean - according to the calculations above - that almost a third of these devices should run on SF.
Maybe the interesting questions will be, how many new customers will get attracted to the FP2 through the mere fact that SF will be available. I have no clue about how big the community of SF is, or how big the interest in SF could be, but this of course might render my thoughts above obsolete. If indeed there is the belief that these numbers could be reached on top of the 140k, than I am much more optimistic to see the numbers from the calculations feasible, as I could imagine that 10-20% of the “regular” FP2 customers might be interested in switching to SF as well.
Of course everything I said above is based on my own assumptions and on my opinion, I have no evidence to back that up
In any case. I would be very happy to see an official build of SF (soon) available for FP2
happy to see there is a discussion around sailfish + commercial parts! I think a lot of users are in need of new hardware as the old jolla phone is getting older and older … mine is almost done. There is no sufficient alternative available right now. I think it is very critical for Jolla/Sailfish to be successful to get new hardware for all customers as soon as possible! OS with no or very very old hardware is useless. Of course I am willing to pay for sailfish support! Please hurry up
Even though I prefer a one-time payment because I already have too many subscriptions to keep in mind, I would suggest a subscription model to make sure that Sailfish OS is solidly financed so that there will be updates and security fixes until the amount of users is too small to pay further developments.
I also would like to see sailfish as an official OS on Fairphone. Price around 40€ and updates.
Jolla phone user since Januari 2014 with no Android. Although hardware is outdated comparing to
new phones the OS runs very smoothly on the phone.Only problem for me is that there are no spare parts
available for phone after 2,5 years. While Fairphone 2 shop is filled whit it, Jolla shop is empty.
Any news on Sailfish OS?