What I’m trying to say is, the list is only useful if we include device specific issues which FP can actually fix. Core Android bugs are for Google to fix. 3rd party bugs are for those developers to fix. But if there is a device specific issue, then for sure we should list it there. Otherwise we can include so much stuff, the list would simply lose its meaning. We could e.g. also list Gcam bugs, those cannot be fixed by FP. Best to report that in the Gcam community, and for sure, maybe link that overview here so everyone knows where to find it. I hope this makes sense.
Since FP4 does not use GCam but its own camera app (which is just tightly connected to Google services like Google Photos and Google Lense) there is nothing to report about issues with GCam.
What I’m trying to say: it does not matter where issues originate from - but at least Fairphone should communicate about they are aware of this and if a fix can be expected at all and if yes, with which update. They know way better what exact version of Android they use and what changes from the upstream are included in their device specific version.
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I don’t get your point, you could also argue that the FP4 already comes with a launcher, which integrates with Google services, so also nothing to report about 3rd party launchers then? 
I’ve already spent a lot of time on this forum explaining things, often in a loop. Most recently about the adaptive brightness. Life is too short for this. Please, just accept that the overview is for device specific issues only 
Wrong. Using a 3rd party launcher is an official feature of Android. And if this causes issues, then they should be reported.
That’s why suggest that Fairphone(!) should provide a kind of bugtracker where this can be collected and commented by Fairphone(!) and not by users.
Still don’t get your point, you can also install different cameras, that’s also a first class feature in Android. The point is, who is responsible for the bug if its reproducible on phones other than a FP? Sounds like a 3rd party problem and you should report it there (as well as at FP) and likely the 3rd party needs to fix something. Not FP. So let’s not taint the overview with 3rd party issues. Feel free to create an overview of 3rd party issues of course! Problem solved 
Sure, report it to FP, if they say it’s their turf, then so be it. But I don’t get your logic so far Anyway, that was my last try in explaining this. Please don’t take it the wrong way. It’s just that we’re in a loop. Life is too short for that
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Fairphone provide support for the default setup, and warranty where that applies.
Any user software changes are not down to Fairphone, they have enough issues with the default setup. Here the user has a choice, 1/ Contact Fairphone 2/ Check the forum to see if a) others report the same issue and b) to see if there is a workaround.
Although Fairphone provide the Discourse engine they are not committed into using the forum as a support interface. They do however post version updates and therein can be placed responses. However a concerned user would really have to contact support if they want an official response.
There’s no ‘Fairphone should’ aspect in all decency, though some people want Fairphone to be responsible for more than they set out to be.
Still it is a little entertaining watching thoughts unravel.
Talk to Fairphone if you really want them to listen.
Take care.
That’s why suggest that Fairphone(!) should provide a kind of bugtracker where this can be collected and commented by Fairphone(!) and not by users.
So why not go ahead and make them provide a bugtacker?
With these recurring discussions I’m always pretty baffled what people expect. I mean, hypothetically, even if we users all would agree on “how to run things”, who is supposed to do what to make that happen? Writing “Fairphone should …” or “project XYZ does things differently” to other users again and again obviously doesn’t get things done.
But then, maybe as Urs has pointed out, this might just be an unfortunate moment in time where there is no community manager which makes things worse than usual.
One thing I need to think about was the hint that Fairphone Angels might look semi-official or could be confused with actual employees. Getting rid of that icon in the avatar should be doable in case its cons outweigh its pros.
Sorry for this rather short reply, I don’t have the time or energy right now to elaborate more on each of the different aspects.
Edit: included a quote because I didn’t type fast enough to have my post directly below the one I was responding to
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Yes - and of course one would expect, that other camera apps also work. Indeed Fairphone already provided a fix to make Camera2 API work correctly to give access to all camera modules, so you can also use Open Camera for example.
“Recent apps” is a feature provided by Android itself. When this function breaks using a 3rd party launcher and the 3-button-navigation nobody can fix this except Fairphone by providing an updated version of Android which does not have this problem. For the users it would be exteremly helpful if Fairphone would at least confirm that they know about this issue. Even if it can not be fixed because Google introduced a bug in Android which can not be fixed by Fairphone this would be a valuable information.
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If Fairphone needs assistance in getting a bugtracker up and running - I can provide whatever they need and I have servers available to do this. But if I just do that on my own without talking to any staff of Fairphone first, then it is still not a bugtracker of Fairphone and Fairphone will of course care what bugs are recorded there. Why should Fairphone pay any attention to any bugtracker a user has set up on his own?
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How can one apply as a community manager?
At Join our team - Fairphone Current vacancies there is no open position for this and all the positions offered are only for people living in or near Amsterdam as it is expected to be onsite for 60% of the time (except the Suppliers Sustainability Manager which is needed in China).
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Let’s be real, they could use GitHub if they really wanted to. The issue is that Fairphone seems really uninterested in improving the communication with the community. My best example of that is when now-former employee Rae wrote a post after months of silence regarding Android 12 stating something along the lines of “as you know we were planning on releasing it in December” even though we didn’t know that because they never told us that. When people pointed out that the communication needs to improve she agreed.
… then she quit and it has been crickets since.
Presumably they don’t see the point in improving the communication with us, a minority of people come here at all after all. Most people “communicate” with Fairphone on Twitter or similar platforms.
My understanding is also that they’ve outsourced the development of Android, so presumably that company would have to be the one doing the communication and I don’t see that happening. It’s not like the FP4 is their first phone, it’s attempt number 4.
I’m happy with the fairness aspect of my FP4 but when it comes to core software issues like the camera and the security updates I feel they are an indie company through and through.
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That’s doable, I’ve just removed my ‘Flag’ as an example and will not re-instate it.
It’s a forum user choice and nothing to do with Fairphone
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Same for me. It’s ok that I can get contacted by local users in Berlin who need help with their devices but since I don’t represent Fairphone I don’t want to leave the wrong impression.
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Yes, the fairness aspect is also one of the main reasons why I got my Fairphone 4 and I do not regret that decision. At least one can also change the whole OS if the stock ROM does not fit the users needs - eventough e/OS/ has its own pitfalls.
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They have their own Gitlab instance at Explore projects · GitLab but only the FP2 related projects are public. There are additional projects that are invite-only for people participating in one of the beta testing programs. They also have internal projects but of course we don’t know if it’s on that Gitlab instance or somewhere else.
And yes, software development has been outsourced from FP3 onwards.
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I totally agree with
And per
Yes, that’s what a proper bugtracker is for. Unfortunately, we’re unable to use gitlab.fairphone.org whatsoever, nor issuetracker.fairphone.org for recent devices.
demonstrates this too.
However, @Ingo, in this regard, what does
mean?
Do you know of any of the methods of joining such programmes?
Yeah, calyxos is brilliant (if Google support is unimportant).
Indeed, pitfalls they are. I tried /e/OS, but it was almost as buggy for me, just in different ways.
Fairphone advertise here on the forum for beta testers etc. so you may want to visit frequently not to miss an opportunity.
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It was an exaggerated way of making a point to actually do something that targets the company not other users here in the forum.
We - as users of the forum - have heard the same arguments all over again and again (and I don’t think that many e.g. see a public bugtracker as something to be avoided). Those topics usually get rather heated at some point in time. But it changes nothing if users talk to users.
If someone really would be dedicated to get things done, I’m convinced it’s not by writing walls of text into a forum. How somebody takes action I’d leave to them. Writing an open letter and ask here to co-sign it, start a petition on some of the well-know platforms, buying enough shares in the company to get to decide themselves, and surely more ways. I’m probably exaggerating again now, but all I ever see is complaining and not taking action. Many people seem to wait for someone else to take up the task, but all they ever achieve is pissing off a few others (in both directions). And that’s not about this topic in particular, and neither about the Fairphone forum in particular.
Watch for announcements like Fairphone 2 beta program signup instructions or Fairphone 3 beta program signup instructions - Signup closed! 🛑 in the “Participate” category, e.g. with a search like this: Search results for 'beta #participate in:title' - Fairphone Community Forum
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New community manager?
Will introduce themselves, get their positive welcome, because this forum is a nice and polite place and we like the new community manager, and then next thing will get a link to this topic as mandatory reading material 
.
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