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Not upgrading to Android 10 (yet)

I decided to leave it a while before upgrading my FP3 to Android 10 just in case of problems. I knew if there were any, I’d be able to read about it here. Well, I’ve been reading with horror at the list issues and as things stand, no way will I be upgrading. My phone works well on 9, so Android 10 would be a downgrade. I do reserve the right to change my mind should all the problems be fixed.

I’m gobsmacked that this downgrade was rolled out it. Was any beta testing done? Fairphone are a small company so can be forgiven if they didn’t, but Google has no excuse. Sure Fairphones aren’t the only phones affected by some of the issues.

Thanks due to all who reported your issues, you have been instrumental in my decision to hold back. I hope this mess is sorted out soon or FP offer an option to roll back and support Android 9. I can live with a dead Google search bar and a nag telling me my phone is X days out of date. Seems minor compared to Android 10 woes.

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Let me see if I understand you correctly:

You have not installed the upgrade, yet you have an opinion on how well it functions?

I have experienced no issues and have even experienced slight improvements when playing music via Bluetooth and Spotify Connect.

Keep in mind people won’t come here to post about it when everything works just fine.

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Yes I am going by what folk here say. If more people came forward and said “I’ve had no problems” perhaps it would sway me into trying 10 on FP3. It is good to read it is working well for you but the possible cons far outweigh any benefit I see coming from 10.

You are also correct in that more people will post a bad review rather than write to say how well it all went. I haven’t a clue of the percentage of FP3 users that have had a seamless transition. Would you be happy with no caller ID or 4G? Just one of the issues would drive me nuts. I can’t afford a new phone. Not finished paying for this one yet.

I don’t know if administrators would go for this but perhaps a simple poll could be constructed here for people that have taken the plunge? Maybe three options to choose from eg. a) No problems at all following upgrade, b) Initial problems that were easily fixable, c) Major problems still on-going ? Failing that, all I can go on is more people like yourself taking the time to report in a positive way and I thank you for doing so.

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  1. It wouldn’t be representative.
  2. Two people (you and someone else) have aksed for this far, i.e in two weeks IIRC.
  3. I personnally don’t see the interest of such a poll and I totally agree with @Linn.

Most users know that this forum is to discuss issues. Very few users will sign up to say everything went alright. If @Linn reports good feedback, that’s because she is a regular forum member, and she didn’t just sign up after the update to talk about her experience.

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@Linn and @alex21, given you’ve had no issues, can you confirm notifications are being displayed when they arrive? My screen lights up but only displays the notification icon but not the popup or information. Going back to @TW8punk’s perspective, I find this a showstopper with Android 10.

Hum, well, I don’t own a FP3 :sweat_smile:

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I agree, that a poll like that wouldn’t be very informative.
Not representative, too few answers to be expected …

To me, it is sufficient, that there are quite a few users having reported problems like missing caller ID.
@TW8punk
I totally understand your reasoning.
Being an early adaptor always comes with a risk, that you are free to not take.

That’s the same reason, I am still on Android 6 with my Fairphone 2, though the update to Android 7 is available for nearly 2 years now. First I was hesitant due to troubles reported and now I am just OK with what I got and don’t want to do all the backup etc. that would be advisable. Maybe, I will switch to /e/; but that remains to be seen.

So, no need to justify your reluctance!
At least I fully understand, that you don’t want to take the risk of maybe having to downgrade again.
I guess Fairphone didn’t halt the update for no reason for a few days. :wink:

My wifes FP3 is on /e/, so I have no idea regarding the upgrade.

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I’ve had no issues except the notification thing (which is basically a non-issue for me). When the screen is off and a notification arrives, the screen lights up briefly but only displays a lock symbol. When I then turn on the screen again the lock screen displays the notification like before the update.

Edit: for the sake of completeness, I also have the small gap to the left of the digital clock in the top bar even with no provider name displayed, but that’s purely cosmetic.

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I am sure fairphone looked for bugs a lot before releasing Android 10 but people were asking and Fairphone made the mistake to give a date. That’s why it is better to say nothing.

Then I am among people who have no bugs (I am very happy with the lock on the black screen when a notification arrives since I don’t want people to read them or now which app they are from). A possibility is that the testing was ok but not in some few cases with some apps installed or another strange reason. Unfortunately programmers cannot test every single possible bug since combinations are in infinite number.

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I have posted elsewhere my phone indeed no longer display notifications. I simply don’t view it as an issue.

I somehow doubt it, judging by the rest of your post. :wink:

Edit: apparently showstopper can also have bad connotations. Learnt something today!

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Alex21 :

I’ve been reading this forum since I got my FP3 last year so yes, you are correct that I’m a newbie. I’m pleased newbies took the time to report issues too. I haven’t got many issues with 9. The reason I started this thread is because your straw poll asked for comments for those that won’t install it. Did I do wrong? Both Linn and you seem rather hostile to my comments. I could not see any of the 5% who voted to abstain from the upgrade commenting which is why I started this thread. In your point 3, you say that you totally agree with Linn, but in what respect? I can’t see any Linn comments on a poll. Please explain.

True, a poll would only be representive (if I’ve counted it right), of the 162 have voted to say they have had the upgrade. So yeah, probably not worth the effort.

pcm:
A lot on the bug list would ruin the phone for me. It would probably be less lengthy to list symptoms wouldn’t bother me.

BertG:
I will stick with 9 for now. You are right, I don’t want to take the risk. I see my phone turning from something I like a lot into something unreliable and annoying. I just hope over the next few months, the reported bugs get resolved, and people that reported then come back to say that they have been. While the saying “if it aint broke, don’t fix it” sort of applies here, there is the issue of security updates not received as Andriod 9 is no longer supported by Fairphone.

uodalricus:
Thanks for your report. It is good to know you have no major issues.

Alain_Guillet:
Pleased you too have no issues. As has been pointed out, forums like this are usually place for people to share issues rather than say how rosie everything is. I agree with your that developers can’t forsee every issue, but there is rather a lot of them on the list.

Thanks for all your replies.

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I’m sorry you felt offended, this was not my intention. It is true my comment was a bit harsh.

No. You are totally allowed to start a topic to discuss if you want :slight_smile: You are also allowed to start such a poll yourself if you want, as the user that did for the poll about the android update. It was no moderator or admin that started the poll but a regular forum user.
I was only expressing my opinion here that I didn’t see a use to this poll. Though that doesn’t stop you from starting one yourself, and exploiting the results.

She said:

Which means to me that a poll to know whether users have had important issues or not wouldn’t be that much representative, since most people probably wouldn’t bother to much to come and say everything works fine.

Indeed you are right.

Again, I never meant to say that I was right and others were wrong :slight_smile: I, as much as others, can be wrong, and I was telling you my point of view.

Honestly, I joined this forum in February this year :wink:

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Hi Alex21,

No need to apologise. I did feel a cold wind blow but neither of you were offensive and Linn and you having an opinion is hardly a crime. Pleased to hear having my say isn’t frowned upon either. Thanks for clearing things up.

I didn’t realise Antoine (who did the poll) was a standard member. I assumed he was a moderator as he’s stamped as a Fairphone Angel. I will read up on that.

As far as a poll goes, your arguement against does hold water. (Yeah I’ve been talked round) If a large proportion of voters joined up to the forum just because they have issues with upgrading, it would indeed sway the result in a negative manner and problems would then appear to be wider spread than they are.

Oh. I won’t tell anyone when you joined if you don’t :wink:

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Just click on the link about #fairphoneangels. Fairphone Angels aren’t moderators, it’s a different project. Some are both (like me, or a few others), but there’s no specific link between both.

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Strange, I tried to start a poll and got a message saying I couldn’t.

I agree that it would not be representative, but I think the picture we get now from browsing the posts and comments is even more distorted. Very few people will take the time to post “everything’s fine!”, true. But maybe the bar is lower for just clicking “no issues” in a poll. Besides, we’d get some info about the relative frequency of the issues from people that have issues.

The problem I see, is more a kind of structural/logistical one.
When users have troubles, they come here and find quite a few threads adressing different troubles. There solutions and workarounds can be searched, discussed and shared.
Opening a poll on “Experience with Android 10 Update”, chance is, that people enter that topic, click the poll and start the discussion about their troubles right in that topic. This would mean all kinds of problems discussed in the same thread.
Thus that thread might grow beyond being practical. And it would be hard to find solutions/workarounds etc. for a certain problem.

Or people coming to the forum with some troubles would find the topic for their problem and would miss the poll.

At least I would not want to pop up every now and then and move posts to another thread or point users to those threads and the solutions discussed their. As well I would not want to point at the poll frequently.

In my opinion it should be kept as simple as possible.
One has a problem, finds the forum, finds the thread for the problem and finds (hopefully) help.
While I am scientist at heart, this topic is - in my opinion - about helping troubled users and not doing research. (I expect Fairphone will do so; even if we won’t necessarily learn the results. :wink: )

Edit:
For starting a poll, I guess, one has to reached the Trust-Level 2 “Member”. So, in fact, not every user can do it, but the regular ones do.

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Ok, thanks for this. The additional work for the moderators (thanks for doing this, btw!) could probably be avoided by locking the topic with the poll. But it seems that nobody else is interested in seeing the results of such a poll, and I don’t want to cause potential problems for others just to satisfy my personal curiosity. And you’re right of course, FB are doing their own research, I’ve already responded to two polls about the FP3. Though they were very general and not geared toward the Android 10 update.

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Start a poll : So ‘Alex21’ says you can and ‘uodalricus’ says you can’t? My money is on you needing a higher trust badge level as well. I ‘earned’ one of those silly badges last night and I’m a member now apparently :wink: Maybe I hit 5 posts! I’m too old to appreciate the whole badge thing, but understand trust levels are important.

If a poll were to take place, I’d be more than interested in the result, but it wouldn’t sway me into upgrading even if negative reports are lower than I expected. The only thing that would encourage me to upgrade is if I read on this forum that all the major issues had been fixed. I don’t think a higher OS number means better, but I think keeping security up to date is important.

One thing I am more interested in right now is why only some of our Fairphones’ show symptoms while others get away scott free. I’m not talking about things like icon placement or no dead screen notification as that is down to Google messing it up or thinking it was a good idea to change it. I’m talking about the major issues that stop the phone functioning properly. Do Fairphone 3’s and 3+ all have the same chipset? Do we all have the same version of logic board and modules? If Fairphone have made modifications to firmware as they went along, that could explain why only some users are having problems. I hope Fairphone are looking down this line as if all FP3s were identical (excluding MACs,IMEIs serials etc), they should all fail in the same way right?

Many problems could be down to sloppy scripting. Could be Fairphone or Google, but Google seem to rush out a new Android release every year now so my money is on them for now. I think Droid 11 is already out there? Hang on Google, you haven’t finished 10 yet! :wink:

Applications are another factor. Can’t rule out rougue apps.

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You can start a poll if you are a member, which you just became. See the documentation here:

Well… Two chipsets are never perfectly identical, because the production of the chipsets isn’t 100% mastered, and some will always be a little worse than expected and some a little better. Though a tiny minority goes out of the norms, and this can trigger bugs. The problem is, you can’t test them all. So apart if there is a whole batch that is defective, some less efficient or more or less slightly defective modules are sold.
Secondly, some problems are software-related, and this comes from the configuration of the user’s phone. Some people may have these and these options activated, while others have a slightly different configuration. Some conjunctions of activated options may trigger bugs and some may not.
Electronics and computer science are really complicated :wink:

(Disclaimer: I can not guarantee that my explanations are right. I have no specific studies in IT or electronics, so please correct me if I said something wrong)

I personally think lots of listed problems are being caused by network connectivity. There is definitely something going on with some users having differing 4G connection problems and I think these have led on to other problems like apps crashing and phones draining or restarting.

Mine took over a day to settle down, spent a week draining quicker and still takes about 10 minutes to reconnect when coming off Airplane mode. I also noticed several Apps not working or constantly running and these were ones looking to connect to servers for content like the Google app. Once I had stable connectivity again and updates began to come along via Play it has worked really well and very smooth. I think others are seeing the same because the inital few days of problem posts have definitely reduced.

There are still minor bugs to sort but I am happy with 10 now and the new features like stopping Apps from running or using data when not open and security updates through Play seem pretty cool.

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