Fairphone 4 bootloop after overcharged by car charger

Moin :slight_smile:
After three times contacting the fairphone support who was not helpfull, i try to ask you, if you have any idea what to do:

On our holiday we used a char phone charger who worked on the first days, but then stopped charging. After plugin to charge at a later day, the screen went brighter and after a few seconds the phone restarted - entering a bootloop:

  • You can see the FP logo, it dissappairs and 1 second later rebooting … → rebooting every 4 seconds.
  • the only thing you can do is entering bootloader, who works until you choose recovery - it just entered the bootloop again - so no software changes can be done?
  • Fairphone support (per mail or chat) was not able to help me, exclude to tell me to use recovery ( even i explained, it does not work …) or to send phone in to repair - which will delete all holiday pictures of course. I have a small backup, but of course not from the holidays.
  • I already replaced battery and USB-C component - no change of bootloop.

Here are my questions:

  • if the car charger suddenly apply 12V to the phone, what part normally gets broken ?
  • Any chance to fix this?

My first aim would be getting the pictures, then repairing the phone. Any ideas?

Thank you MFG
Steffen Janz

Moin :wink:

Sorry, I’m afraid your holiday pictures are truly gone. In any case you would need to send it in for repairs. The only way a overcharging could put a phone/computer in a boot loop is if it either damaged the CPU, so the BIOS can run, but as soon as it tries running the OS it crashes, or it damaged the hard drive, which means that the data on it are lost (partially or totally). A data recovery service could probably recover part of them, but it would be very expensive (and success isn’t guaranteed)… That’s the pessimistic view… :slightly_frowning_face:

Here is a more optimist one: There might (not sure) be a way to recover things from the phone’s internal hard drive (memory), using a computer, an USB cable and the free Android debugging software.
Beware, the operative word here is “might”, I don’t know enough about it, but there are some Android wizards in this forum, try to get their attention.
Good luck, you’ll need it…

Moin - thank you for you fast reply.

  • If the BIOS would be down, i though the bootloader would not be able to load?
  • CPU - no bootloader
  • Maybe the RAM damaged …
  • You can not really repair or get flashdata from SD-Memory back, like in FP4, if the memory is damaged.

MFG
Janz

Bootloader = BIOS. BIOS needs very few resources and isn’t stored on the main memory (it has its own independent chip usually). That’s why it can even run with a damaged CPU (or even no CPU at all!), no RAM, and so on.

Fried RAM could indeed be the culprit, but at this point that’s all idle speculation: One thing is sure, your phone needs to be sent for repairs.
And you’d like to get your pictures back before that.
So, if the internal memory isn’t (too much) damaged, there could maybe remain a chance you might be able to access it from a computer. Maybe this isn’t possible without fully booting the phone, you’ll need to wait for somebody who knows better.

To be maximally pedantic, phones have neither hard drives nor BIOSes. For that matter, no computer made anywhere has had anything describable as a ‘BIOS’ since at the latest 2020, when Intel announced that they were finally removing and ceasing to support the “legacy CSM” (“compatibility support module”) which provided real-mode boot faciliies in the UEFI firmware on modern PC motherboards. Even before then, the thing described as a BIOS (a pile of almost-unmaintainable handwritten assembler which provided early boot facilities and some very poor driver-analogues to ancient PCs running MS-DOS) has not really existed for at least a decade, since UEFI took over and replaced it with a much larger and more flexible pile of code written largely in C. Unlike BIOSes this has a single reference implementation, EDK, that is largely maintained by Intel and that almost everyone else uses with minimal modifications. Unlike the BIOS of old, the UEFI bootloader is a full-blown operating system with loadable drivers and everything, which can even provide services to the OS proper once the OS is up. Unlike BIOSes of old these things usually have watchdogs so that if booting does fail they will try again (expensive server-class hardware hits these surprisingly often!). For that matter even desktop CPUs have watchdog timers these days, with pins that are monitored by other hardware on the motherboard and that triggers reboots or shutdowns to avoid further damage if they’re asserted.

Phones have nothing like this – like most ARM boards smaller than a server they are booted via u-boot, which is a pile of C with extensive board-specific hacks. They do often have watchdogs of a sort though, because it’s much harder to just turn a hung phone off (the power switch is read entirely by software which is frozen if booting has failed or the system has hung).

And, of course, they have no hard drives. Flash RAM everywhere. This is not good for you: hard drives are basically immune to overvoltaging, though you might need to replace the electronics and possibly even the heads, which is expensive, the actual drive surfaces with the data on will probably be fine and there are expensive specialist firms that can get the data off.

But overvoltaging any sort of modern chip, either the CPU or RAM, is very likely to fubar it badly enough that they work at best erratically, which usually means that booting fails and, if you’re lucky, a watchdog fires and they try to boot again, only for that to fail, forever – you need to be lucky because usually I’d expect this to fry the watchdog circuitry as well. Fixing this sort of thing is basically impossible even if you had millions to spend: overvoltaging, like hitting chips with static, causes scattershot damage all across chips and massive data loss / logic failures, and there are no facilities for fixing that sort of thing, nor any mechanism to do it. This is the downside of building things layer by layer using photolithography: laying them down is comparatively easy, if anything that requires multiple machines costing hundreds of millions of dollars each could be called easy, but fixing anything that goes wrong would require some different magic technology which doesn’t exist yet and likely never will.)

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Thank you very much for you long answer.

Next time all my pictures will be on an extra SD Card, which should prevent this loss again :frowning:

Make sure that you install your SD Card as portable storage not internal.

Sure. :smiley:
80% of my job consists of explaining technical mumbo jumbo to technically clueless C-suite managers, so they can get an idea what’s going on and what the stakes might be. For this I tend to heavily rely on metaphors and over-simplifications: It’s not supposed to be a technical lesson, it’s a simplified, popularized schema so everybody can get the general idea.

That’s why I thought there might be a chance the data part (or at least part of it) is still intact too. The question was if there is any means to access it if the OS doesn’t start.
You seem to say there isn’t. A pity. :slightly_frowning_face:

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Hey there,

you mentioned that you changed the USB-C Port an the battery. Is there a way for you to make sure that the battery is fully charged?
Does anything happen at all when you just insert the charging cable with the phone turned of? Does it “wake up” properly and show how much the battery is charged or does it run into a bootloop as well?

I had a case with a FP3 which had the very same behavior. It turned out that the battery was just extremely decharged and every attempt of the phone to even show the charge percentage when being plugged in resulted in a bootloop because the battery was not able to even provide the energy to show the charging screen.

I fixed this pretty easily by entering the bootloader and afterwards plugging the phone in to charge for a longer time (~ 2 hours, the bootloader screen is on constantly). Phone and battery just worked fine afterwards.

Cheers

Thank you for you idea!
Sadly i charged the whone over 3 hours - still boot loop.

MFG
Steffen

IF you didn´t throw away the charger, I would recommend to do it, unless it was an expensive reputable brand version. It may work on other phones temporarily or can kill them later.
Sounds like the buck converted (12V [rather 12.7 -13.4] → 5V) was giving voltage spikes or failed all together.
In principle there should be circuits protecting your phone from over voltage but they seem to have failed after some time. Unfortunately, it is impossible to say what breaks first. In principle there are converters from battery voltage to 3.3 and 1.x for the processor and other components. However if your phone stops working at least one of them failed already and than anything after that can fail too. The weakest link dies first and may cause the malfunction. Just my addition to what has been said.
If the memory is not affected you could move it to a different phone or rescue system but that is quite expensive I believe (100 someone has a flow for the FP → Xk€ some one needs to build something for your problem in particular, unfortunately also with no guarantees.)

Thank you for your response.
I already opend the FP4 and I can`t even figure out which is the memory. Every chip, which could be the memory, is hardfixed, so nearly impossible to remove and to replace it on another phone …

Do you know which part is the memory?
MFG
Steffen

have a look at ifixit or FPs schematics

A phone is not like a computer (PC), which is modular, built with discrete parts. On a phone “memory” (RAM and disk) are just soldered-on chips (much like in a USB stick). You can’t remove them (easily), and even if you did, you’d have to solder them into a new motherboard having the fitting controllers.
Slightly beyond the reach of the casual tinkerer…

That’s why I mentioned the possibility to access the disk using a USB cable and an external computer. You can’t just remove the phone’s “disk” and read it.

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I really wanted to switch the memory to another working FP4, but removing the chips is difficult, yes. I don`t what to try all chips one after another. I am sure I will break at least 1 if trying all. And 400€ per try is not nice.

MFG
Steffen

:astonished: OMG, no, that’s not an option!
Especially since you don’t even know if the memory hasn’t fried.
A professional recovery service might have been able to try it, but unless you have a fully equipped forensic electronics lab at home, you yourself can just hope to waste your time and finish your phone off. Your chances to succeed are as big as throwing the phone in the air and hoping that after the impact the problem will have gone away (i.e. vanishingly small)…

I’m afraid you might have to write off those pictures… Sorry.