Fairphone 1 maintenance comes to an end

I made no decision, I don’t work at Fairphone. -> Community Moderator: From the community for the community. :slight_smile:

If there is a Fairphone Angel near you, you can ask them for help with updating your Fairphone 1.

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What change of position do you expect? As far as I understand, the batch size they would need to order of new batteries (and so, also the investment) is just too big:

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That analogy does not make sense, as time passes continuously in the meantime. It would be fairer to compare the situation to a baker that you want to buy bread from, only you do not know when you are going to need it, and he doesn’t know if the mill will have enough flour on supply. Of course, the baker is not going to tell you he cannot sell you any bread, unless he knows for sure he cannot get any flour…

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I think this was an analogy to how it went with the Android update for the FP1. Originally it was announced for Sept. 2016(?) (I’ll be there at 5.") and after that date had passed they kept on telling that it’ll come (“I’m coming! I’m almost there.”) until they had to give up on it (“I’m not coming.”). In that way the analogy makes sense, it’s sad but also understandable from the company’s perspective.

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If you think that that analogy fits well, then at least they kept everyone up to date about the status. (something other people complain about they didn’t).

They also could have said nothing… Maybe it would have been better; you can’t break any promises if you never make them.

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A post was split to a new topic: Blueborne fix for Fairphone 1?

I can understand this decision concerning the more complicated spare parts. But not for the battery:
Please tell me: whats the price for producing lets say 10 000 Batterys for fairphone 1?
You could even collect orders for that battery and then let someone produce a batch. Can’t be very expensive!?

Regards, Ben

I have heard from Fairphone that you need to order at least 50.000 if you want to get them for a reasonable price, and that was not an option since there are only an estimated 20.000 Fairphone 1’s still in use.

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The problem, as a Fairphone employee explained in a post, is exactly what is to be called “reasonable”.

No one ever offered some solid numbers regarding the reasonabilty of producing a batch of replacement batteries.

So, you’ve been told 50.000 is the magic number. Reasonable price (for FP to order them), just guessing, would be about €5 per piece: €250.000 total then (Anyone with more insight should correct me here).

If you could find 10.000 FP1 users willing to pay about €25 for a brand new replacement battery, this could be handled without too much damage on any side.

But no one ever asked. :unamused:

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On the #efct17 there has been a discussion with Fairphone employees and community members about this topic and that is where the number of 50.000 comes from. It was pretty clear at the time that there was no viable way to get these batteries.

We did ask them on the EFCT. Batteries are not that cheap. They did a calculation like yours and the total price was nearing a million (or over a million, I don’t remember) instead of your €250.000. Batteries are simply not €5 even if you order 50.000 of them. And that doesn’t even consider the environmental problems associated with ordering 30.000 or more useless batteries.

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I would have guessed that as well.
What really annoys me quite a lot, is the lack of information.
Not only I have posted this question for just some basic number-crunching more than once; addressing especially @Douwe directly, who has been on the forum since then quite regularly.
So they were able to share this info on the #efct17; well, where was the problem to share this info here in the forum. Just three numbers: minimum order: 50.0000, Order price 20 € each. Maximum of 20.000 FP1 still in use. So you can see, that the battery would have to be sold at least for 50 € each to reach the break-even point. That only working if everyone purchased a battery.
And of course it would be against all sustainability to waste 30.000 or even more batteries for phones that can no longer be supported software-wise.
It even seems, that the generic battery for the Huawei phone will soon be sold out and seems not to be produced any more; although this phone must have been sold in much higher numbers.

But no! No message from FP in that direction.

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You’re the first one here giving such information. Would have been better - if these numbers are correct - to just make them public. Everyone would have agreed that preordering batteries for 1M would be insane.

BTW: By saying “No one ever asked” I meant that FP didn’t ask the FP1 users, not the other way round - sorry, if I wasn’t clear enough.

Agreed. If there really is a 50.000 lower limit to producing batteries. This, too, could have been communicated openly, couldn’t it?

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What I really don’t understand: What’s wrong with the FP1 batteries, so they couldn’t use the same kind in the FP2? And FP3, and…

I guess it’s the new design of the FP2. To that modular design the battery of the FP1 would have been an unnecessary limitation. Add to that the quality problems with the first FP1 batteries (lots of bloated ones).

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Also, the battery design is licensed. They may simply not have the rights to use it in a new phone design.

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The FP2 battery has a 15% higher capacity compared to the FP1 battery (2420 mAh vs. 2100 mAh), while being 24% smaller in size. It would not have been practical to use the FP1 battery in the FP2.

(Thanks to @matthijs for providing me with the dimensions of the FP2 battery over in the Riot chatroom. )

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3 posts were split to a new topic: FP1 batteries from a Chinese manufacturer

Dear people at Fairphone,

I know there are many posts in this forum and it is frustrating to hear so many people shouting around without listening to your arguments. Nevertheless I’m still waiting for your answers about my questions about software development in an earlier post (Fairphone 1 maintenance comes to an end). I hope I’m getting an answer at some point.
This is really important to me. I was number 2000 and something to preorder a FP1, and I did this because you promised an open source OS. Please help me to understand why the OS development was not puclicly available and accepting help from community members like me.

Sorry to say you fall into this category yourself. The answer has been given (multiple times) in this topic.
or example by @paulakreuzer in post 58 of this thread:

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Hm ok, sorry, I missed this post. But it doesn’t explain why it’s not possible. @paulakreuzer So the people behind Fairphone just messed up with the first manufacturer… That’s a pity (because I primarily bought my FP because I expected it to be open; I enjoyed that it was rooted :wink:). I’m quite sure that FP did promise they use an open source OS. I can’t find that, now, of course, but for the FP2 they explicitly advert this as a feature.
Nevertheless I’m glad that they seem to have learned from their mistake: FP2 really IS open source. It’d be much easier to let the community contribute if the development took place on Github or Gitlab. Is there a reason not to do that? I have a bit the expression that FP doesn’t really want the community to participate in the software development :confused:.