Customers, a species of camplainers?

The behaviour of people rating products is an interesting thing to follow.
Especially when a new product is presented to the cage of close minded people with their unability to see the needs of others and their point of view.
The world is seen only from their very own fixed angle of these selfish people, not capable for any empathy.

What is happening here?
These people set their needs in front of anybody else, what is in fact most unfair and can not even call a bit criticism. I see this as a problem, very especially by people who claim to be sustainable, or fair acting.

Fairphone needs qualified feedback to improve further. Thats for sure.
I am a Fairphone Angel for many years now and witness this change for a long time. I try to believe in people, but the situation makes it hard.
Where is the will to push things forward instead of menace to boycott the product when their very special expectation does not take place in the final product. Nobody forces one to buy that device.
We all could just be thankful for the most fair and sustainable product ever produced. Even when it has no headphone jack!?
The holy :green_apple: got rid of the headphone jack years ago.
In the future we will not drive with combustion cars anymore, maybe we will not even drive the cars ourself. This is how things evolve. And for people who want to continue using their corded headphones there is a solution: a small adapter. The be honest, this is not too bad as a solution.

The “Why do you bring the FP4 just one year after the FP3+, I just bought it and now I get forced to buy the new one” is a statement that leave me headbanging against the wall.
How selfish is this statement!
Even if Fairphone decides to bring an iteration every two years it is a benefit for the whole market. More people have the chance to switch to an ethical device instead of buying a another brand, cause the actual available Fairphone ist outdated since four years i. e.
People with the same mind as the statement above should consider, that the new Faiphone is not especially made for them!

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Aren’t you doing the same, you are complaining about? Why do you call it ‘selfish’ if someone has a different opinion than you?
i personally think, there are some good arguments against a new release every two years, and I don’t think that’s selfish.

But I agree totally with you, that there are some people reacting to harsh, if their expectations are not fulfilled. But that happens all the time with any product, which is released.

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Whereas I agree with the notion of the topic, customer complaints may be useful to the business for their profit making mentality but also useful to the customer to vent their frustration.

The frustration may be
a) over the expectation of the specs of the new product
b) the timing.

Well I have both, and yes they are selfish, that’s what consumerism is all about, what I want. Without people’s selfish concerns there would be no Fairphone etc.

The problem arise when there are multiple concerns

  • Something that is going to last so I don’t have to keep buying
  • Something reliable so I don’t have to complain.
  • Something that doesn’t appear out of date so that doesn’t evoke the first concern
  • Something that doesn’t make me look totally selfish, the fairtrade aspect

Now in the case of the Fairphone I would reverse the order of the above and I soon come across the ‘out of date issue’

A modular phone that could have a removable section with swappable parts would help. I could add a jack socket, etc.

But developing a phone that can do these things, be profitable and fairtrade is a difficult task, so in reverse order all is good.

The FP4 is a fairtrade phone, not too out of date, hopefully with less complaints especially with bottom modules and software.

And finally a forum where people can complain.

It would just be easier to read if the complaints were separated into categories and not mixed with request to resolve actual problems with the phones.

Categories:
Help: Failures of the phone to operate > Tending towards support
Help: Difficulties with operating the phone > Forum expertise
Whinging: For people upset with

  • support
  • quality of the phone, specs etc
  • general whining about what is fair and how upset people are with Fairphone

After all we are a species of complainers

I think you are referring to me here, aren’t you?

There are a couple of things to unpack here:

  • The headphone jack is a personal need of mine, hence why I will not buy one. - Which is fine by your reasoning.
  • I’m not calling other people to boycott. The only reason I’m stating why I made the choice, is because I want Fairphone to be successful and I want to use their products. - If and only if enough people agree with me, this change would be an improvement worth doing in the next iteration.

Now away from self-defense and onto your later statements:

The holy :green_apple: got rid of the headphone jack years ago.

Apple doing something isn’t a good reason for Fairphone to do it too. They have a history of intentionally locking down their ecosystem, making things hard to repair. - I’m not saying everything Apple does should be avoided, but only that the reasoning “Apple did it” isn’t a good one.

In the future we will not drive with combustion cars anymore, maybe we will not even drive the cars ourself.

Sure, but that’s mostly for the environment, isn’t it? - In my opinion, the move towards wireless headphones is the exact opposite, introducing extra component, batteries and less lifetime, all for the minor convenience of not having a cable.

This is how things evolve.

(opinion) Well it is, if we let companies do the evolution all without our input.
Do you think it is an accident that Apple, Samsung and now even Fairphone all released more expensive, wireless headphones at the same time? - No. This is a for-profit move, by all of them.

“Why do you bring the FP4 just one year after the FP3+, I just bought it and now I get forced to buy the new one” is a statement that leave me headbanging against the wall.

Completely have to agree with you on that one.

In conclusion, I am sorry I annoyed you, but I stand by my point.

And just know that this is the first time I tried to give feedback that way, just because it is one of the few products where I would have cared. But if I’m perceived as a Karen that way (which seems to be the impression you got) I’ll not do it again.

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I don’t think the topic or any part is directed at you, just a general acknowledgment that people are never content.

I don’t have a problem with anything @ElKrasso or you have said, it’s just looking at the world of problems from different points of view. It’s healthy for those that are looking for problems, useless for those that aren’t. :slight_smile:

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@ElKrasso I completly agree with each single word you wrote.

I’m sitting here reading all those partially agrressive demands send towards Fairphone the last few days and I’m really astonished what people think who they are. This has nothing to do with criticism or at least its a real annoying way to word critics. @almostauser your post is in my eyes an example how critics is worded very well , it is giving reasons and not just throwing out a sentence very aggressively over and over again without even giving reasons.

What I see is that Fairphone really tries to improve and take note about what their customers say, so everyone for sure can phrase critics, but the way its often done really drives me nuts.

The other feeling I have in general is, that companies, people who try to move into a new direction on how we treat environmet and people are not at all allowed to make any errors. No one can be perfect from the first second and a company has to earn money when they want to survive, so without new products not enough sells to pay e.g. salaries, keep support for older devices etc. pp. also a company still has to look at the market and what the majority wants and I think better camera is wanted by more people than a headphone jack. Because again, no sells=no salary+no support for older devices.

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You may be correct, but then so is a cheap phone, a reliable phone etc.

if you restrict yourself to what only Fairphone customers want then I hope the Fairtrade is what they want primarily, but I empathise with those that want an earphone jack so as not to have extra adapters and not wanting to stress the usb port.

It does make me wonder if Fairphone take much notice of their customers or are trying to bring over the jack free gang. I imagine the the later

So some people are upset and need a shoulder to cry on. I don’t think they really are directing it to Fairphone else they would contact them.

However in having a voice and a sound box this species can better see what they are like and if they take a longer look how they will evolve.

How often do only you tell the people that they should contact FP support when they want to address things to FP? So yes many people are directing it to FP. And if not even worse, because that means they direct their aggressive trolling bad vibes towards each one of us.

I can see this is going to go well

Observations:

  • This is not the good vibes forum
  • There are more good vibes than ‘trolling bad vibes’
  • Very few are directed towards me as ‘one of us’
  • I’m not aware of hardly anyone who has to complain and becomes seriously insulting.
  • So now we complain against those you complain, is ironic the correct word or it it hypocritical ~ I’ll have to do some homework?
  • No one has to engage with the depressed and disappointed but I would not choose to play down their concerns before I argue the toss or play down the issue.
  • I have opted to join this Fairphone support forum, after all it’s about people not the phone.

I’m not sure about your

I’m getting you are upset but not quite getting what is so bad?

:hugs:

I really can’t understand this why people say this. You don’t need to buy it. Be fair.
When I buy something, I ask myself what do I need. Then I look for it, buy it and be happy.
Yes, I have a FP3 and I will buy a FP4. Why, that’s easy.
When I bought the FP2, I gave the FP1 to my partner, who hadn’t a smartphone yet.
When I bought the FP3, I gave the FP2 to my partner.
Now the FP2 of my partner is 6 years old and it has problems because of multiply rebooting.
So when I buy now the FP4, he gets the FP3.
And that’s how I am being fair to the phone by passing it on to somebody else and it will get the change to be years in service.

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More (processor) power to BOINC! :+1:

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To the complainers, hypocritical or ironic.

Hypocritical > Really some people think they have a better view of fairness and trade than Fairphone, really ~ you will see posts with the words ‘should’ ‘must’ and equally demanding words that attempt to pressure and cajole others do better as if the author was on some higher intelligent and caring level

Irony > We have a topic to complain about complainers. All very simple, but it quickly turns to irony i.e. if it was meant to curtail complaints it just adds to them, being one itself.

Do I have a problem, other than me, no.
:rainbow:

Key Difference – Irony and Hypocrisy

Irony and Hypocrisy are two words between which some difference can be identified although some confuse the difference that exists between the two words. In day to day life, we encounter situations and instances where irony and hypocrisy emerge. Before understanding the difference, let us first define the two words. Irony refers to the expression of meaning through the use of language which normally means the opposite. For example, we expect something to happen but the exact opposite of this takes place. Hypocrisy, however, has a different meaning. It is the behavior in which a person pretends to have higher standards than is the case. This is the key difference between the two words. Through this article let us attempt to gain a clearer idea of the two words while emphasizing the difference.

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@almostauser

I am sorry I annoyed you

My post wasnt in your direction, I read several posts by different people.
But it is a positive point that you question yourself.

Sure, but that’s mostly for the environment, isn’t it? - In my opinion, the move towards wireless headphones is the exact opposite, introducing extra component, batteries and less lifetime, all for the minor convenience of not having a cable.`

Thats a point. The demand of people what became a standard could not be ignored, as sad as it is.

(opinion) Well it is, if we let companies do the evolution all without our input.
Do you think it is an accident that Apple, Samsung and now even Fairphone all released more expensive, wireless headphones at the same time? - No. This is a for-profit move, by all of them.

This is exactly the reason why I like to have a right to repair and a standadized charging plug. This needs to be regulated by politics with relation to susatainablility.

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There’s a big difference between letting your one voice be heard, and screaming like a little child how you demand a certain feature (there’s also some gray area, of course). Some people here repeat their point ad nauseam in various threads. Its better to centralize feedback into the relevant topics, and it isn’t useful to repeat yourself (or have the very same discussion here as well). Ultimately, its up to the mods, but you can help by reporting posts which don’t follow ToS.

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Why should it be one or the other? Give us better cameras and a headphone jack!

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam!

Meanwhile, we all know, what you want. But it’s not necessarily the opinion of the majority.

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Ask not of others but of yourself.

Develop intelligence rather than the environment, for happiness is dependent upon what the mind wants. So why want of others?

I don’t know what the others want. I know I want my headphone jack and I know Fairphone could have given it to me.

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Could only differs from should in the context you use it in ‘ability’ Clearly Fairphone were not thinking of you or me and were unable to encompass a jack in the FP4 for whatever reasons they probably still have.

I doubt the FP4.* or the FP5 will have one either. but it may be nice to ask them if the could leave a gap for one next time, OH and I want an FM radio etc. etc.

It’s Fairphone’s business and there’s no benefit in business to those who don’t partake.

I’m angry because I care about their business. I care about their business because I believe what they claim to stand for.