Android 12 for FP4?

You chose to use the CIA to compare Fairphone’s failure to provide you with insights it seems not secrets as you worded it.

And in either case you chose not to use a large business like Microsoft or Amazon.

You choose to compare to a murderous company and invoke some secrecy you want exposed.

So it’s more me questioning your use and comparing to Signal is far less ‘insulting’ but still why compare? If you want something from Fairphone, why not ask them rather than slag them of on a forum :slight_smile:

It’s all a joke ~ right ??? You don’t really mean what you say ??

Android 12 is just another episode in the not so funny, drab soap opera, which we voluntarily buy into and moreover via the Fairphone channel.

It’s all just TV (Tunnel Vision) Each subscriber sees what they want to see but not where other people are at or heading.

:rofl:

I just can’t see a way of adding much humour to this :frowning:

It’s called making a point. Signal has their development behind the scenes, the same as Fairphone. CIA is also doing stuff behind the scenes. Could I have chosen a better organisation to compare them with? Absolutely. I was half-jesting when I used the CIA, since they are an organization know to be secretive. I’ve repeatedly mentioned that I desire a less closed development for Fairphone. The entire point of Fairphone is to be better than the competitors ethically. Yet we know next to nothing about what they are doing, same as most other companies. Even Samsung has a developers blog. Would you say it’s ethical to leave your customers in the dark?

And in either case you chose not to use a large business like Microsoft or Amazon.

Just because we chose a smaller company doesn’t mean we can excuse them for everything and anything. Corona was definitely a valid reason for delays when it comes to Android 12 not being released in a timely passion. But at this point, I think Android 14 will launch before we get Android 12 and we don’t really know for sure why. I’m not going to email their support about this, as I shouldn’t have to. Literally all I want is to know what’s going on. Preferably on a blog, or email list, or literally anything. But alas, here we are, wondering why we’re 1 year behind other companies. You’re gonna ignore this in your next response, but I don’t actually care that we’re 1 year behind. I just want to know why, and I want that info in a way that isn’t “Hey guys, the support guy told me THIS!”

You choose to compare to a murderous company and invoke some secrecy you want exposed.

The CIA isn’t a company, and I felt it was super clear that I was referring to their software updates being kept secret until release. What I wrote was literally:

I genuinely don’t see why a company built on the foundation of being fair and open about their product lines should be secretive like the CIA when it comes to software updates.

I think the point of that was super clear, and I genuinely fail to see how you could see that as me accusing Fairphone of being like a murderous organization overthrowing governments in foreign countries.

It’s all a joke ~ right ??? You don’t really mean what you say ??

Honestly, I get the impression that you are intentionally strawmanning my posts at this point, constantly trying to undermine my suggestions, cherry-picking one liners, rather than actually understanding what I’m saying. My point to put it bluntly is that they should be more open about what’s going on behind the scenes. I don’t think wanting info on the product I bought for my own money is asking for too much. In fact, I think I ask very little of Fairphone at this point, and I’ve stated as much. I just want to know what the future of me as a customer of theirs is going to be like.

I really hope this is a language barrier thing, but you come off as very demeaning and belittling of what is, in my opinion, a valid suggestion. Because that’s what my posts here are: Suggestions, not critique or a threat of leaving Fairphone in the future if things don’t change.

On the contrary, I’m very happy with my Fairphone 4, even with its flaws. I just wanted to voice my opinion that FP should be more vocal about their future plans.

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And I vehemently disagree.

Different philosophy I don’t think anyone should do anything. i.e . it is not my intention to demand or ask someone to do anything they don’t want to do.

As for ethics I consider the fair trade for miners and factory workers beyond anything I could have hoped for and asking or wanting more in other aspects of someone-else’s business seems inconsiderate.

Strawmanning :: I am not trying to undermine your will to argue for what you want but challenging that you make demands on a public forum of a private business, which seems unreasonable, though I understand your desire.

If you really want Fairphone to do as you want try asking them. It seems what you are doing is trying to gather support for what you want, which I do not support on a public forum.

UPDATE: I have been advised not to respond to any further off topic comments of yours etc. Which I was inclined to do anyway.

So good bye and have a nice day :slight_smile:

If you disagree with something, it’s generally a better idea to make a constructive response rather than go with something like:

It’s all a joke ~ right ??? You don’t really mean what you say ??
:rofl:

I just can’t see a way of adding much humour to this :frowning:

^ I don’t know how you think the above is an acceptable answer, when all I’ve done is voiced a suggestion.

Different philosophy I don’t think anyone should do anything. i.e . it is not my intention to demand or ask someone to do anything they don’t want to do.

How will Fairphone know people want something if literally no one mentions they want it? I don’t get your “argument” at all.

Strawmanning :: I am not trying to undermine your will to argue for what you want but challenging that you make demands on a public forum of a private business, which seems unreasonable, though I understand your desire.`

I’ve not made any demands. Now you’re strawmanning me right after saying you’re not strawmanning me. I literally said it would have been nice to have more communication from the company. If you want Apple to use USB-C, don’t you think it would be wise to share that opinion with others in, perhaps, a public forum dedicated to Apple?

If you really want Fairphone to do as you want try asking them. It seems what you are doing is trying to gather support for what you want, which I do not support on a public forum.

You know forums are for discussions, right? If you don’t want discussions, why are you even here? This is a forum, not the Fairphone fan club. Almost every post here is “off topic” as no one really knows when Android 12 will launch, hence why I made my suggestion.

UPDATE: I have been advised not to respond to any further off topic comments of yours etc. Which I was inclined to do anyway.

I disagree that my posts are off topic. Literally all I was saying is that communication about future updates would have been nice. And I posted that on a thread about future updates. It would make Fairphone closer to the community if they just felt like sharing more info with us customers.

You’re repeatedly claiming I’ve said things I haven’t … And I don’t understand why. I’ve been abundantly clear, I’ve not demanded anything, and in my last post I made it clear that I’m only making a suggestion/wish.

But I guess posting a suggestion on a public forum about the product I’ve bought and love (which I’ve mentioned several times, that you conveniently seem to ignore) isn’t allowed.

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Which ROM are you using to get A13 on the FP4?

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CalyxOS, there is a thread about it.

And a how-to guide, but they have just recently released their device-flasher.
If you decide to try it, use that. There are some small glitches, but it’s the safer option.

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I would like to come back to the original topic ^^

Any new information regarding Android 12 yet? I mean, it’s the middle of November already and I heard nothing yet.

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We’re not overdue, right? The expected due date is Q4 2022. So, it may be soon.

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Well no, we are not overdue, but having some news about it would be nice.

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Hi and welcome to the forum.

Once those hired to do the dirty work of making an update it has to go to Google for over 2 million checks, only when they are happy will they give Faiphone a license to us it.

I’m sure that the day they get the OK they will push it to the networks for thier checks.
Each network if happy wijj then automatically send it to thier subscribers.

Fairphone can have no eta for these procedures

I haven’t been actively following the topic, just scrolled through it and I just want to put a small side-note on this specific statement.

While I agree that Fairphone isn’t the best in communication, I think talking about “taking a gamble” is quite unnecessarily pessimistic. I’d say you take a way bigger gamble when you buy a phone from pretty much any other manufacturer, even the big ones, as pretty much none of them have a track record like this for (eventually) releasing updates:

I have never in my life got even close to 5 major OS upgrades ever happening with any other brand personally.


On the other notes of this topic, while I’m sure it has already been said a million times, I personally think that the vast majority of users don’t care about having the newest Android version the moment it releases. Most users don’t even know what they run. The one thing most users do care about is the software on their phone not breaking, so “slow and steady” is the right answer for most people. For those who aren’t like that, LineageOS (and now for FP4 also the privacy-respecting CalyxOS) is a great option :slight_smile:

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FP software quality has been the worst in my experience. Even when released slow, there are bugs you find by just using the phone for 5 minutes. While e.g. a Pixel receives the latest Android release and it’s just boring. Everything works. So let’s not paint the picture here that slow releases mean you get more stability. This all depends on the skills and resources available. I want Android 12, but if that will set me back with even more issues, then that would be terrible. Even if you get “6 years software support”, it is a painful 6 year journey. Also, Qualcomm doesn’t support the chipset that long. So you’re actually running a vulnerable device after about 3 years.

Sorry for the downer, I just don’t like it when things are twisted in a positive way, when they’re just not.

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It seems you are yourself too much positive about Google and its Pixels that are very often concerned by bugs. But the patch arrives faster than on Fairphone phones.

I had a Pixel for 3 years. The only bug that I ever found was that the live Earth wallpaper didn’t refresh the weather clouds every day. Total different ballpark than having crippling usability bugs for over a year and be behind 2 major Android releases. But yes, I still choose FP because of their mission. But they are testing that support. :stuck_out_tongue:

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This talk of positive and negative attitudes is just relative, there is no positive or negative, there are experiences and some people are happy.

It is a strange ethics where someone buys a phone from the only buisness showing concern for the actaul workers and then drag that down to the use of the product.

Sure the use may not suit some, but they bought the phone and if they didn’t think about it then that’s not down to Fairphone, and if they didn’t do research that’s also not down to Fairphone.

A lot of the arguments seem to be about some software problem where some people, maybe a few, peopleare not happy.

So for those people why buy the the Fairtrade phone which clearly puts most or more effort into the production employees that the software and the devs.

But it’s a business, if they don’t make a phone they can sell that will be the end of Fairphone.

Android 12 it’s just a step through muddy waters of consumer fancy steps, and it’s a bit slippery.

Mud is OK it’s not a negative thing but some people like to be tidy and clean and to them it’s unacceptable. Not a great phone for a surgeon maybe but find for the farmer.

But I did “research”, I asked on this forum if call quality was okay. It was praised as great quality. But here we are, many people complain about bad calling quality, something that’s not the fault of the consumers. It can also not be swiped away as a “premium” feature. It’s comments like these that polute the “research” results. It’s fair to say that FP comes up short with their software quality. It’s just a fact, supported with a list of reproducible issues for over a year. In the meantime more issues were added because of poor testing on FP’s side. This is not the fault of the consumers. And buying a phone that supports fair trade and materials doesn’t mean it has to be unfair to the consumers. A smartphone is a device people use a lot during the day. If the basics don’t work well, even after a year, then that’s on FP. Not the consumers.

I agree but expected that even without research, one reason I kept away from Fairphone until my ‘Human Rights’ focused daughter wanted.

How my daugther with her FP4 doesn’t have problems, so if it a software one it isn’t emdemic it would seem.

There are probably a 100,000 users and 100 complaining. Given the users use different methods, different apps, different carriers etc. it will be hard to find a single solution, hence the long drawn out complaints and lack of resolutions,

I mean it seems only a ‘few’ consumers so what is on FP

It’s not unfair to the ‘customers’ as customers means ‘all’ and it may only be a few points of a precent.

So I can’t see how A12 is going to resolve anyhting except a few GUI changes and a securoty update both of which will hardly be noticed by most users I imagine.

Better stop this as it’s about A12 not . . . .

All the best :slight_smile:

This is really not a fair way to evaluate these issues. The people that have issues, not just with the microphones are many. And anyone who uses their phone encounters them. It’s not that some people are lucky. Some people don’t use their phone to do video calls, regular calls (loudspeaker) apparently. Or use their phone in the evening, because then they must be fighting the automatic brightness every day as well because the phone doesn’t go all the way to 0%, while 0% is already very bright. There are so many issues with this phone that are unsolved for over a year. And some people evaluate this phone like you and make it sound its all okay. Fan boying/girling a product is not healthy. Being too negative isn’t healthy either of course. But these issues are reproducible, by many. FP support is still struggling, that’s not because they get too much fan mail. They get too many complaints!

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Your experience is not what say users of Pixel 6 (article in French : Google Pixel 6 : les bugs à foison poussent les utilisateurs à passer chez la concurrence).
It says one third of the Pixel 6 buyers don’t want anymore a Pixel phone because of the bugs.

I remember our discussion about you buying the FP4. I had told you you would be disappointed by the software and you should avoid it at that time…

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I never had a Pixel 6, that phone is indeed plagued with more issues, also because it’s the first chipset developed by Google. I did have the pleasure of using the Pixel 6a for a while, couldn’t find anything wrong with it, except for the fingerprint sensor. Friends that are not tech savvy can point out the flaws of my FP4 in minutes as well. I remember these discussions with you, but that was when I returned my first FP4 due to persisting issues and asked if those issues were solved. That was not in my initial questionnaire about the phone. Back then the phone could shoot rainbows and was flawless, as some still insist it is.

Now don’t get me wrong. I can get rid of this phone any minute. The reason I underscore these issues is because for some reason people want to make this phone sound better than it is. I really don’t like seeing that. Let’s just describe the phone as it is, not as you want it to be, or why you feel good about it. For now I’ll still put up with the flaws because I do see the value in the mission of FP. But as time progresses and bugs don’t get resolved, it does wear down on me.

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