About expectations

Discuss The Industry
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I am again and again confused by this forum, the things and the ways we discuss.

We all decided to buy a niche phone from a small company, whose mission is to make this world a little better, but demands are as if we bought from a big player, that just looks at maximizing profits.

And on top of that, I get the impression, that there is even a resistance against reason.

Fairphone is not only small, there is a goal in their products that contradicts capitalism:

“Sell fewer phones to the people.”

I love that, but I know this has consequences, like a small dev department, like only one phone instead of three choices, etc.

Obviously, I thought, the FP3, 4 and 5 came as mid range phones, but with higher prices, due to the small numbers, the ethical sourcing and the longer lifespan.

But here in the forum, I see people complaining and reasoning as if we went to Samsung.

I also see posts of some that seem to think a smartphone should take pictures in the like of a Nikon.

And of course some who think that the phone should be only as thick as a single sheet of paper.

I see expectations far beyond possibilities, whether those are technical or economical, like modding the mainboard or niche of the niche features.

And if you try to argue and explain, it seems people just don’t want to listen or understand.

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Nothing changed since this topic

Sometimes I think some people only want to troll and flamebait, because different people have the same circled discussion with them repeatedly and they squirm to keep the discussion ongoing for their amusement.

So I guess its better to ignore those once my own point was made, because all was said and others reading have to make their conclusions.

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The ‘ignore function’ is your friend…

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I have to agree that sometimes it can be tiresome to read the same demands over and over again. Fairphone is a tiny player in the phone market with an incredibly niche product, which nevertheless seems to be doing incredibly well. Not only financially in terms of survival, but also regarding their own goals of more sustainability in sourcing materials and producing phones.

I was an early backer of the FP2 and loved it, despite having massive problems with the hardware and software. But I knew that it’s going to be a tough road buying a first edition of a first own product and then trying to de-google it with an alternative OS.

I just bought the Fairphone 6 and I’m amazed how far Fairphone’s come! The product quality is outstanding and the cooperation with an alternative OS provider (Murena) benfits both communities greatly.

Would I wish for higher specs? Sure! Would I really want a better camera? Absolutely! Would I prefer GraphenOS? Yes, please! Could I afford it? Yes, probably. However, many others won’t be able to afford a >1k phone. And for Fairphone it’s an extremely risky financial bet to launch several products within the same category that could end up threatening their business model.

Times change. The headphone jack’s not coming back, just like the floppy disk or horses. And replacing Philips screws with Torx screws has been one of the best decisions regarding sustainability and customer satisfaction for those who open their phone more often.

Did I get everything I wished for with the FP6? No. Maybe I’ll get that with one of their future phones. But until then I’m going to enjoy a fantastic experience with an incredibly well built product, which should be a lot more appealing to more average customers than the previous generations. And if the company is able to launch improved future products while really staying true to their ambitious mission and vision then they did quite a lot more right than most other companies.

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You have all made good points, and eloquently so, so I do not need to just repeat them. Two brief thoughts instead:

  • On Ignore. I do use it. But almost exclusively for topics, not users. I have made it a habit to every now and then check my list of muted (the correct word here) topics (at Preferences –> Tracking –> Categories –> Muted). If one of these has not had a reply for a certain timespan, I set its notification level back to “normal”.
  • One little noticed fact (perhaps not 100 % related to this topic): For the first time ever, Fairphone right now supports (software) four phone generations of Fairphones at the same time. Quite a challenge, even though I assume it won’t last much longer than (my guess) mid-2026 (but it’s not hard to predict it will be four devices at the same time again just another year on then).
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It might not be my organic way of dealing with emotions, but I would like to recognize the power of sharing frustration. Sometimes being heard, acknowledged, recognized is enough.

Some of the users who said, no more FP stuff, I am done, seemed to reconsider and keep their devices, some moved on.

That might be a bit off topic, but once I wanted to do the voluntary service at the NGO and it also mattered for my professional career goals. I was told I am not a true proper volunteer then. So now I am advocating for broadening the perspective :slight_smile:

I understood that FP wants to broaden their customers base to reach to people who might not have heard about the company before, customers with expectations shaped by the current smartphone market and their previous experience. Like I am learning all the time how different user cases there are.

And while I agree that some arguments, expectations or demands seem to be repeated in a reoccurring fashion, I see it also as the way for the company to gauge what matters for their future customers. Just today I have seen the reel by FP, asking viewers to submit their wishes for the future tech;-)

People might be drawn to fairphone for their values or wish to kill two birds with one stone, by buying a phone good for them and good for planet, some might not care at all about what I care about and still buy the same phone.

I am a political scientist - I see that too often people are just not really listening but wish to be heard.

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This is something I can relate to and obviously, I am also just sharing my frustration.

But as with e.g. political topics, when you stop listening or reasoning, you loose any right to open your mouth.

There are of course things were ghere is no right or wrong and just opinion, but many discussions circle around things that are just impossible.

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While it is a definite waste of time for mods, admins, fellow users to constantly repeat the same answers and I welcome all the solutions that keep them sane, in good health, willing to still spend their time and resources to contribute to the community, I would never agree to this statement

But as with e.g. political topics, when you stop listening or reasoning, you loose any right to open your mouth.

I draw my line at insulting, mocking, discriminating people, but other than that I will always be against silencing people.

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I disagree, but I respect your opinion. I think that there is too much nonsense out there already poisoning discussions. And not only that. Letting people say this nonsense again and again has brought us to the world we are now all living in.

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I would rather say we let the AI do the nonsense part, making it even worse, as it is much faster then humans :wink:

I am very positive that Fairphone is about to learn from this community (at least they post accordingly) and find a way back to to their customer base and make them content in general (not every single one, of course, because that is simply impossible).

And yes, the expectations are very high. Fairphone set them by themselves as a different kind of mobile manufacturer in the past and struggled the past year or so to find an appropriate way to handle them. I am very positive that they are able to find a way to communicate better with their customer base again. IMO communication (including a good support and communities like this one) is one vital part to enable them to use their phones longer and hence in a more sustainable way. And of course this commercial approach is very different from what the big layers in the market do.

Sorry for repeating my same old opinion again :wink:

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Expectations are subjective and are set by you based on your very personal interpretation. Expectations are no facts mentioned by FP. You cant blame FP when your expectations dont meet reality, they dont know about them and even if they know there is no obligation to fullfill them. They are a comapny, they are not our friends.

They say: we will interact more. Now there are thousands of interpretations out there what this could mean. Daily, weekly, monthly, quaterly everything more than the past 2 years. As long as they dont provide any hard facts of what that means it can be all or nothing.

I will repeat ChatGPT as in my opinion thats what it is and in my opinion thats happening because they feel like friends to some while they are not. They are a company as HMD is.

And as readable all over the forum: its never enough whatever they do. They get anger when they dont post here, they get anger when they post here. It seems some forget that FP are also people, human beings like we are, so all this partial aggresive accusation hits people with feelings and expectations.

So beside the fact that I believe some trolls use the forum for their amusement, I would ask for more respect, instead that everyone feels others are happy to be confronted with their unfiltered frustration. A few years ago I would have said: one would never do this on the street when passing by a stranger in the meantime even this isnt that impossible anymore.

So yes frustration isnt the point, the point is how I throw it on other people, and how often I repeat it. When its ad nauseum its just annoying and I dont thinkn it helps to be taken serious by anyone.

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Of course. Your are absolutely right and I should have used the word promises instead. The promise to support a device for at least 5 years induced expectations. Also the promise to provide spare parts and make the phones in many cases repairable by the owners themselves induced expectations for example to be able to use the phone much longer than the period phones are usually used for.

And then the support was not as responsive as it should have been anymore, spare parts were delivered late, updates were delivered late, too, and that obviously put some harm to the relationship to the customers especially due to the promises had made beforehand. Of course FP is a rather small company needing to earn money and is likely not in the best position to negociate long term chip support with for example Qualcomm. This is all quite well to comprehend.

Still they missed to at least try to compensate this in the past by better communication. And at the very same time I see that they seem to have understood this and correct it (or at least try to), which is a very positive development, especially when you compare with other companies in this and other markets.

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And in my world, all this is happening, for me there is zero sign against any of those points. And thats where interpretations based on the life experience of each person steps in. So you cant really convince someone that your interpretation is more correct than the other persons interpretation. Very often people dont discuss about facts, they discuss about opinions and an opinion cant be really right or wrong its subjective.

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I am not trying to convince anyone of my opinion.

The lack of or the poor quality of FP’s communication led some people to doubt if they can and still wanted to keep the promises they made originally at all. IMO this is the root cause for the complaints.

And YES, I see improvement in the past months (that is, if one wants to see it, of course).

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