I don’t know what you do for a living, but I kind of depend on it. No phone - family starves.
For me it’s not just an accessory to “keep in touch”, it’s vital, which is why I’m kind of touchy about the issue(s), I hope you can understand that.
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I have a spare FP3 so if ‘it’ is so vital ( else the family starves ) then a) buy another FP3, 4 now and b) . . . . starve . . . . really ?
Buy another FP4? So I have two non-working phones? 
It’s not an issue of dropping my phone in the loo, it’s an issue of not being able to hold important business negotiations simply because people don’t understand me (or I don’t understand them). Even if not all FP4s have this problem, I won’t keep buying FP4s till I find a “good” one! If I buy another phone it will be a Samsung, or a Pixel.
And yes, starve, really. I’m the only one bringing home the bacon, and I’m a consultant, i.e. freelance: I’m living entirely on my rep and my capacity to work. Apparently you’re not willing to understand that, so let’s drop this pointless discussion.
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Well, I understand Kurt’s point (although “starve” might have been exaggerated). At times when a phone’s core feature was calling, failing in this discipline would have been a complete failure. Proposing to get an additional phone because the fair one doesn’t work properly may not be completely in line with the idea to save resources which is one of the main pillars of sustainability…
But anyway: I think this discussion can be more or less separated from the discussion around FP5. If Fairphone wouldn’t come up with a next generation of their devices, at some point no one would buy any of their devices anymore which wouldn’t help supporting FP3, FP4 or whatever product, either. In an ideal world of course we’d have one device that could be supported and incrementally upgraded for decades, but we’re not quite there yet, I fear.
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Fp4 is not fine,
There are quite a few that have hardware problems that are not being solved…
When the 5 comes…how much will they spend on correcting the problem in the 4…
I am currently in contact with someone in Fairphone that is not in customer service, because that did not solve anything to try and get some answers and a possible solution.
I hope Fairphone will do the sustainable thing…and resolve the problem in the 4
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Yes whereas that is the one of the current passwords to encourage consumption in a ‘Green’ envelop I don’t support any of the pillars as I have no concept of sustainability outside of what a person or group wants.
Absolutely 
OK not aware of any of them, hear a bit about software, but as
Lots from what I can tell. My FP3 is on Beta A13 and is pretty good. It seems the first couple of years are teething troubles 
Look around in here …just the ghost inputs are enough to make me want to throw it in to a wall 5times a day minimum
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Not sure what this has to do with the topic, and that some people have problems is only their problem. There was a graph made available a few days ago showing Fairphone returns were lower than Apple and Samsung.
So either the the phone is generally better of the users are more tolerant.
…you started it:
“OK not aware of any of them, hear a bit about software, but as”
So I made you aware…and now you comment I’m off topic… brilliant
But reading the other comments…I’m out of this one,no Interest in drama queens
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I really do hope that Fairphone releases a “4+ upgrade kit” alongside upcoming Model 5.
Cuz as far as I can tell from the leaked “exploded view” of the Fairphone 5 the display, Main Camera Suit Module, USB-C port, Speaker Module, and selfie camera/front flash components are all very similar in size and layout even if the exact shape and connector placement are slightly different between the two models.
Offering a 4,300mAh 10% higher capacity replacement battery for the Fairphone 4 (like what Framework is offering for older generations of Framework 13.5s and the 62kWh & 40kWh battery packs compatible with older 30kWh & 24kWh Nissan Leafs respectively) would be icing on the cake!
Back in 2021 the original Framework 13 laptop and Fairphone 4 released within 2 months of each other so offering slightly upgraded replacement modules and components for Model 4 is totally viable if Fairphone thinks there’s enough demand for a totally “new” model while incentivizing existing users to keep using their Fairphone 4s for at least 2 more years…if Framework can do it, Fairphone can too!
Fairphone 4 on top; Fairphone 5 on the bottom:
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You will see this has been discussed before in this the topic below, this topic is more for why is it being made not what is it and what can be done with it
The turning point for me with the FP4 was when I called someone from my FP4 and I could barely hear her. I thought “man, her phone must be terrible”, but I decided to try it from my work phone (Galaxy S8) and suddenly I could hear her loud and clear.
I really wonder why the audio is this bad? Is it the noise cancellation perhaps?
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Responding to the question asked at the beginning: I don’t know much about bringing a product to market, but it seems like there are plenty of different segments in their group of customers and potential customers. For anyone already considering a new phone, either a first FP, or a replacement to a much earlier model, having a new model released means a later end-of-life date than you would get on the FP4.
I don’t think most people feel pressured to buy a new car just because this year’s model is different from last year’s. Probably not the best industry to compare to, though…
I’m still waiting for my current phone to stop getting updates, and now I’m hopeful that the FP5 will be available around the same time.
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Yes “we” need a new FP5, its just time going by.
People on the market want the latest techology, why producing old phones …people would keep buying samsung trashable phones .
You cannot do without listening to your customers;)
New Soc on 4nm node means 4 times more powerfull phone / more battery…thats an advancement in user experience. A new phone every 2 years is a good pace. As we will get closer to 1 nm it might be interesting to get to a phone every 3 years. Since it will be much harder to go below 1nm…you will not see anu difference in usages every 2 years. -
Software issues, just happen. “Shit happens”
I am software dev too and sometime you have regressions yes, things that worked stop to work after an update. Even with autonamated testing. Now FP is realy pushing the updates every monthes. I thibk they could do it every 3 monthes with more polished release. Maybe a beta channel for those living on the edge .
Concerning my FP4 its working better after each update, I wished it would have been faster though. Recentely micro with loud speaker doesn t work
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Solution for longterm update will probably come from RISC V open Soc for FP7 maybe. They could potentially be updated indefinetely… We could then think of LTS CPU parts like with OS .
For example Ubuntu has 10 years of support on LTS, with various phases, even thought they produce a new LTS every two years. Which means having an updated product every 2 years , doesn t necesarely means , not following on the software updates.
- I have read on this forum problems with previous model to find important parts like the battery few years later…I hope FP will comit to keep the parts for 6 years at least. Also with FP5 we will have another battery than FP4.
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There is a beta channel, I’m on it. There really aren’t that many more updates than there are stable releases. Maybe there should be, but that day is not today unfortunately.
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A beta channel for the FP5 ???
I’m on the FP3 A13 one but this is about the FP5 ???
Sorry, so your logic is, to prevent people from buying Samsung “trashable phones”, we need more Fairphone “trashable phones”?
What happened to “sustainability” and “reduction of e-waste”?
Besides, if people are to change their phone every (other) year, they’d be better off buying a way superior Samsung phone: You wouldn’t buy a Fairphone phone if you want “the latest technology”, the one and only advantage of a Fairphone is its exceptionally long life expectancy, and that definitely doesn’t mean “life in the back of a drawer”. 
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Things are not black and white. If we want fairphone to have an impact , it needs to grow. Some persons , like me;) , want to have a moderne phone with a 4nm soc and the longer battery life that comes with it.
Battery life and photo is some of the key features for many users on the market for a new phone.
Beside FP does provide 5 year waranty and software support, which is a milstone on the way.
Just by buying a FP4 you can use it longer by changing the battery every 3 years and screen when you break it. That s already a phone lasting twice the time as any samsung…that s very good ! WHat we need is more people buying…so a better fite to what comon people want
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If you are a manufacturer of vegan ‘leather’ pouches, you can’t start to produce real leather ones, because that’s what the people want. That is completely against your company’s goals.
The same is true in my honest opinion, for Fairphone. Always hunting for the newest shit, is not what they are aiming at.
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Well, while me might agree on the goal, we definitely disagree on the means. I for one think Fairphone needs a strong reputation as reliable. You can’t make flimsy sustainable products.
But once you’ve bought that modern phone, will you throw it away the next year because an even more modern phone was released? 
It’s a vicious circle. Your “more modern” phone will be old and outdated in a year, always.
Anyway, “modern” is not why you (at least me) buy a Fairphone, you buy it to keep it for years, even if it eventually will be ridiculously outdated. Once again, if you want to have the newest and shiniest, Samsung is the place to go, not Fairphone.
What’s the point if you throw it away in 1-2 years to buy the Fairphone 6?
Don’t you see the contradiction in your discourse? You’re a Samsung client, you want a Samsung, you fully adhere to their marketing of “new & shiny”…