Well, I understand Kurt’s point (although “starve” might have been exaggerated). At times when a phone’s core feature was calling, failing in this discipline would have been a complete failure. Proposing to get an additional phone because the fair one doesn’t work properly may not be completely in line with the idea to save resources which is one of the main pillars of sustainability…
But anyway: I think this discussion can be more or less separated from the discussion around FP5. If Fairphone wouldn’t come up with a next generation of their devices, at some point no one would buy any of their devices anymore which wouldn’t help supporting FP3, FP4 or whatever product, either. In an ideal world of course we’d have one device that could be supported and incrementally upgraded for decades, but we’re not quite there yet, I fear.
There are quite a few that have hardware problems that are not being solved…
When the 5 comes…how much will they spend on correcting the problem in the 4…
I am currently in contact with someone in Fairphone that is not in customer service, because that did not solve anything to try and get some answers and a possible solution.
I hope Fairphone will do the sustainable thing…and resolve the problem in the 4
Yes whereas that is the one of the current passwords to encourage consumption in a ‘Green’ envelop I don’t support any of the pillars as I have no concept of sustainability outside of what a person or group wants.
Absolutely
OK not aware of any of them, hear a bit about software, but as
Lots from what I can tell. My FP3 is on Beta A13 and is pretty good. It seems the first couple of years are teething troubles
Not sure what this has to do with the topic, and that some people have problems is only their problem. There was a graph made available a few days ago showing Fairphone returns were lower than Apple and Samsung.
So either the the phone is generally better of the users are more tolerant.
I really do hope that Fairphone releases a “4+ upgrade kit” alongside upcoming Model 5.
Cuz as far as I can tell from the leaked “exploded view” of the Fairphone 5 the display, Main Camera Suit Module, USB-C port, Speaker Module, and selfie camera/front flash components are all very similar in size and layout even if the exact shape and connector placement are slightly different between the two models.
Offering a 4,300mAh 10% higher capacity replacement battery for the Fairphone 4 (like what Framework is offering for older generations of Framework 13.5s and the 62kWh & 40kWh battery packs compatible with older 30kWh & 24kWh Nissan Leafs respectively) would be icing on the cake!
Back in 2021 the original Framework 13 laptop and Fairphone 4 released within 2 months of each other so offering slightly upgraded replacement modules and components for Model 4 is totally viable if Fairphone thinks there’s enough demand for a totally “new” model while incentivizing existing users to keep using their Fairphone 4s for at least 2 more years…if Framework can do it, Fairphone can too!
You will see this has been discussed before in this the topic below, this topic is more for why is it being made not what is it and what can be done with it
The turning point for me with the FP4 was when I called someone from my FP4 and I could barely hear her. I thought “man, her phone must be terrible”, but I decided to try it from my work phone (Galaxy S8) and suddenly I could hear her loud and clear.
I really wonder why the audio is this bad? Is it the noise cancellation perhaps?
Responding to the question asked at the beginning: I don’t know much about bringing a product to market, but it seems like there are plenty of different segments in their group of customers and potential customers. For anyone already considering a new phone, either a first FP, or a replacement to a much earlier model, having a new model released means a later end-of-life date than you would get on the FP4.
I don’t think most people feel pressured to buy a new car just because this year’s model is different from last year’s. Probably not the best industry to compare to, though…
I’m still waiting for my current phone to stop getting updates, and now I’m hopeful that the FP5 will be available around the same time.
Yes “we” need a new FP5, its just time going by.
People on the market want the latest techology, why producing old phones …people would keep buying samsung trashable phones .
You cannot do without listening to your customers;)
New Soc on 4nm node means 4 times more powerfull phone / more battery…thats an advancement in user experience. A new phone every 2 years is a good pace. As we will get closer to 1 nm it might be interesting to get to a phone every 3 years. Since it will be much harder to go below 1nm…you will not see anu difference in usages every 2 years.
Software issues, just happen. “Shit happens” I am software dev too and sometime you have regressions yes, things that worked stop to work after an update. Even with autonamated testing. Now FP is realy pushing the updates every monthes. I thibk they could do it every 3 monthes with more polished release. Maybe a beta channel for those living on the edge .
Concerning my FP4 its working better after each update, I wished it would have been faster though. Recentely micro with loud speaker doesn t work
Solution for longterm update will probably come from RISC V open Soc for FP7 maybe. They could potentially be updated indefinetely… We could then think of LTS CPU parts like with OS .
For example Ubuntu has 10 years of support on LTS, with various phases, even thought they produce a new LTS every two years. Which means having an updated product every 2 years , doesn t necesarely means , not following on the software updates.
I have read on this forum problems with previous model to find important parts like the battery few years later…I hope FP will comit to keep the parts for 6 years at least. Also with FP5 we will have another battery than FP4.
There is a beta channel, I’m on it. There really aren’t that many more updates than there are stable releases. Maybe there should be, but that day is not today unfortunately.
Sorry, so your logic is, to prevent people from buying Samsung “trashable phones”, we need more Fairphone “trashable phones”?
What happened to “sustainability” and “reduction of e-waste”?
Besides, if people are to change their phone every (other) year, they’d be better off buying a way superior Samsung phone: You wouldn’t buy a Fairphone phone if you want “the latest technology”, the one and only advantage of a Fairphone is its exceptionally long life expectancy, and that definitely doesn’t mean “life in the back of a drawer”.
Things are not black and white. If we want fairphone to have an impact , it needs to grow. Some persons , like me;) , want to have a moderne phone with a 4nm soc and the longer battery life that comes with it.
Battery life and photo is some of the key features for many users on the market for a new phone.
Beside FP does provide 5 year waranty and software support, which is a milstone on the way.
Just by buying a FP4 you can use it longer by changing the battery every 3 years and screen when you break it. That s already a phone lasting twice the time as any samsung…that s very good ! WHat we need is more people buying…so a better fite to what comon people want
If you are a manufacturer of vegan ‘leather’ pouches, you can’t start to produce real leather ones, because that’s what the people want. That is completely against your company’s goals.
The same is true in my honest opinion, for Fairphone. Always hunting for the newest shit, is not what they are aiming at.
Well, while me might agree on the goal, we definitely disagree on the means. I for one think Fairphone needs a strong reputation as reliable. You can’t make flimsy sustainable products.
But once you’ve bought that modern phone, will you throw it away the next year because an even more modern phone was released?
It’s a vicious circle. Your “more modern” phone will be old and outdated in a year, always.
Anyway, “modern” is not why you (at least me) buy a Fairphone, you buy it to keep it for years, even if it eventually will be ridiculously outdated. Once again, if you want to have the newest and shiniest, Samsung is the place to go, not Fairphone.
What’s the point if you throw it away in 1-2 years to buy the Fairphone 6?
Don’t you see the contradiction in your discourse? You’re a Samsung client, you want a Samsung, you fully adhere to their marketing of “new & shiny”…
And no one stops you from doing that, even if FP comes up with 10 new versions until then. However there might be people out there who have started that approach years ago already. My FP2 for instance asks quite some patience to still work with, it lacks many of the features which nowadays are not “shiny” and “new” but just state of the art. I will go for a new phone at some point in time (FP5 release might be that point) but then it perfectly makes sense to take one that is state of the art when I buy it because only then I can use it for many years to come. It’s not that a phone only ages by the time of use but also by the SW demands unfortunately. That’s definitely something to change, but we’re not there yet.
People coming from other brands or who have never had a smartphone before should have the choice to buy a phone that is at last new when they buy it (I know that you can also take 2nd hand phones and then replace them more often, that’s just a different approach).
So just because Fairphone comes up with a phone every two years doesn’t mean you have to buy it and this is absolutely in the responsibility of us customers. But with my FP2 it would probably be pretty hard to wait for a new phone if FP aligns with your desires only. Okay, I could take a FP4 but then a FP3 user would say that it’s not time yet for a FP4 because one can still use the FP3…
So, is your old phone still working? All right, it is old, and clunky, and lacks features, but does it work?
My point is, the point of sustainability is to keep something as long as it still works, and to only replace it when it doesn’t work anymore, in this case when Fairphone stops supporting it.
(In your case, support for FP2 has ended, you are indeed justified to want to buy a newer one.)
Ideally, Fairphone would have only one phone model on sale at any time, the “current one”, and they would only release a new one shortly before the current one eventually drops out of support.
All right, I admit this would not be very sexy or headlines-worthy, but I know I would buy such a phone, and I’m not that special, for many people a phone (or car, or whatever) is just a tool, not a status symbol.
(My previous laptop was decommissioned at the age of 15 years (it was running Linux, so no security issues there), when the hardware started to fail. Of course I wanted, but didn’t need a newer, faster (higher, stronger) one, since like most people I’m mostly doing office work and Internet. That’s what reducing e-waste looks like. Now I admit that’s my main concern.)
All I say is if people care mostly about specs they should buy a Samsung instead, and indeed change it every 1-2 years. They would be much happier.
Making Fairphone into a wannabe, inferior Samsung clone won’t help anybody.
In vegan issues the focus is on not using dumb animals
In Fairphone the focus is in not using poor people
So in the first case, such can’t go back to using animals but in the second case a new phone is not a backward step. It’s just providing a more updated consumable and employing more people at fair wages.
And it follows that as I am vegan, organic and fairtrade etc. When a new and more expensive option is available I may buy it.
I can buy vegan choc at less than £1 a bar
Vegan organic at £2
Vegan organic, fairtrade ingredients and locally made for £4
So I buy at £4, if it tastes OK and buy less
My FP3 tastes fine and the FP5 only seems to look more modern. I can do exaclty what I want with the FP3 and will wait for the FP6 or later.
But other people have different tastes and may have to buy non vegan, choc etc.
But business is business and none are exist to do me any good but to get my support via sales.
Good luck to Fairphone and the FP5 I want them to make money so that they can support my FP3 for another six years. Yeap! I hope the next phone I buy is the FP9, so get on the case fairphone, 5,6,7,8 and 9
I am software dev too and sometime you have regressions yes, things that worked stop to work after an update. Even with autonamated testing. Now FP is realy pushing the updates every monthes. I thibk they could do it every 3 monthes with more polished release. Maybe a beta channel for those living on the edge .
