Yes as you have said, itās in the explanantion in the beginning of the topic and that caveat has āalwaysā existed, so Iām surprised people still seems to have such a question in the way it is place here ??
Well, yes I know about that statement. But I did not change my ānetwork providerā as Iām still using the exactly same SIMs. The only difference is which one I use for the data connection. So my observation was simply that it really depends on that data connection, apparently. At least for me that is news as the quoted statement left room for interpretation in a dual SIM scenario.
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Using the same SIM is not relevant to the statement āsome networks/carriers get it laterā
Just because your SIM got it quickly before doesnāt mean itās always going to be like that with that carrier etc.
Itās very relevant in this case, as one of the providers is congstar, which should / does usually get updated immediately. This update was available on day one as well.
(A family member of mine is running stock FPOS with 2 congstar SIMs and Iām tasked with performing OTA updates for them, never had to wait)
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This next update is running a bit late, could it be that Android 12 is coming? And some more testing/development was needed? 
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Hopefully 
Updated firmware blobs for A12, yesss please 
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I really wonder if they will release a public beta first or if they will justā¦ Drop the full release right away?
There is a group of volunteers that get beta updates as far as I remember correctly. So there should be some real usage testing going on. But not in a public beta, I suppose. But I do hope they will properly test it. I already feel like an alpha tester sometimes
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Just a bit of a downer, but I am a Beta tester for A11 on the FP3 and things are often missed. Itās not like Iām going to spend 24/7 trying out every app and every feature and every attachment, that would take years.
I use the beta OTA to run my ādaily driverā and watch the forum and report any common issues or oneās I can emulate as well as anything I find.
There is no such thing as proper testing
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But there is. You can setup a very sophisticated testing pipeline. Thatās also why Google is able to release such stable and fast updates.
I have no idea what kind of pipeline FP has. But I think if the devs use their own work they would spot many things in the first 5 minutes, as we do after we installed an update.
And before you say āthis is a small teamā, āthey are not Googleā and things like that. I have testing pipelines myself at home. And these tools are open-source, so at no cost. Just have a look at the Fedora pipeline, they go pretty far. Even monkey testing of apps, such as OpenSUSE also applies.
I know, these are not Android systems. But Iām sure that Android is mature enough to have similar testing pipelines. There is no such thing as perfect testing, but proper testing for sure exists.
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I guess @anon9989719 meant they arenāt doing proper testing ā¦
ā¦ at least thatās how I read it 
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Maybe, I read it as that they do their best already according to @anon9989719 and pushing it further is not possible. Maybe I read it wrong, donāt know 
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I think it more of the āFairphone donāt test to the ability that is comprehensiveā and so by default things are missed and the Beta team are a load of user ameteurs, well I mean I am Iām sure there are a few far more experienced people back stage but resources clearly donāt line up with the job.
Either way, Fairphone should start properly testing stuff, I guess we can all aggree on that 
That stupid little error in the install script, that would have been immediatelly caught, if some had tried to use them even once. And they managed to make the same mistake twice 
Still not fixed, 6 weeks later ā¦ 
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Just donāt like āshouldā
Be really usefull if they ācouldā and
Brilliant if they ādidā
At least I didnāt have to beta test the mines and production lines, not that I ever intended to, or am going to sign up for that.
Resources are hard fought over and itās an increasingly painful battle for some.
For an error like the one Iām talking about, thereās just no excuse, especially if it happens twice.
Iām not a developer, but even I test my shell scripts before I put them into āproductionā, you can expect paid developers to check their code, thatās just not professional otherwise.
Every issue that doesnāt get found in 5 minutes of due dilligence can potentially increase the load on support several times over. Thereās also a good business argument to be made for testing your stuff.
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Guess thats the obstacle of outsourcing development. less control what is done and the developer most likely dont use all the phones they work on, and than a small beta group of normal user cant test everythingā¦
I cant remember so many major issues with FP2 OS where the development was inhouse, the beta testing available through the forum and a direct contact to the developer through the public bug trackerā¦
Still I need to come back to small, because I guess that FP just cannot hire and pay the amount of inhouse developer they would need to maintain 3 devices at onceā¦
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Sure, a developerās salary is much higher than that of a customer support employee, but as far as I can tell, outsourcing development and in turn hiring more support doesnāt seem to work either.
We all now how long support takes to answer, those are people too, and I donāt have the feeling they are working under a healthy / sustainable load at the moment.
There needs to be a push for proper (automated) testing, there are too many issues that just shouldnāt happen if you have the right processes in place.
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Completely agree there need to be a re-thinking and everything needs to be considered here, because yes I see support staff that is not capable of doing a good job, as most likely the workload is just too high and they cant think out of the box and to get rid, they either Diagnose a hardware issue too fast and forward to Cordon or refer to the forum (best example lately is the BT earphones that were not workingā¦). Either way its out of there to do listā¦
Overall thats tricky to get aligned: You need new devices somehow to earn the money you need to maintain older versions for years. With each new device you need more capacities to maintain, so you need even more money. Overall I see similar struggle as Shiftphones hasā¦ Many devices=no capacities to manage=bad or no updates and so onā¦
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You are right, hadnāt thought about the multiple device aspect of it.
In that case, I think it would make even more sense to have everything in-house. At the moment there are 3 separate teams working on supporting the different phones and there is probably a limited amount of mindshare between them.
Why should everybody be doing their own little thing if you could save ressources by standardizing some of the processes and sharing expertise, which is way easier if everybody is working in the same āteamā.
Why isnāt something like the FP Camera open source, so the community can help out?
I donāt expect things to change significantly, at least not until the next phone, but I think we (and Fairphone as well) can expect the devs to do proper testing, if normal people can find the issues in 5 min of usage, that software shouldnāt have been shipped (and the factory images shouldnāt increase the likelyhood of 
s either).
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