Dear BertG,
In my personal opinion, in a debate, I don’t think it is very interesting to keep focusing mainly, over and over, on
- the form of the argument of the opponent
- his alleged inner state of mind, intention, etc
- notorious facts (hard facts)
Personally, I prefer focusing on the actual content of an argument (controversial facts, opinion, etc) and resort to formal counter-arguments only when necessary, for example when logic is broken by some (unvoluntary or voluntary) formal or informal fallacy: “straw man” technique, sophism, illusory truth effect, etc.
But if you want a debate centered on form and notorious facts rather than on actual content (controversial facts, opinion, etc), I will do as you wish.
Thank you.
Facts and logic are cold but never insulting. I am sorry you perceived it that way and understand that it can be perceived that way.
Yes and no. I don’t know what you exactly mean.
Yes, of course, the way I am using language is intentional (most of the time anyway, as I am a human being and have emotions from time to time): as I said, facts and logic are cold so when I write about it, it is going to be cold.
No, it is not meant to be insulting.
I can’t do more than that as it is difficult to strictly prove one’s “intention” as it is an inner state of mind.
If you read my original post, you will see that I did exactly what you said.
I have not used the wording “shut up”. I used the more generic term “stop complaining”. That includes a larger number of posts that match this “mash-up” content: some polite, some less polite.
I will repeat the citation again (including one more sentence that makes it even clearer) and would appreciate it enormously if you could read it this time:
As requested, I am quoting an additional example:
I am sorry for not answering about the part you were referring to. I will answer you on the paragraph starting with “The hard facts are the following. …” and give proof and references for every single sentence. You will understand that these are notorious facts (hard facts), which means well known and well proven facts and not, as you said:
You can visit the official US National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) sub-website on the official US Time
Link: https://www.time.gov/
You will see that today is the 10/11/2020.
(In formal details, it takes your device’s clock, shows it on screen, compares its time and date with the NIST clock and tells you by how much your clock is off: mine was 0.051 seconds off when I checked)
According to the “Official Guide to Government Information and Services | USAGov”, the dates are written in this format: MONTH/DAY/YEAR.
Link: https://www.usa.gov/style-guide/style-guidance#item-212512
In conclusion we are in october 2020.
You can visit the “About us” page of the Fairphone company website.
Link: About us - Together we’re creating demand for fair products
You will see that the project started in 2010 and became an independent company in 2013.
If you want even more formal proofs, you can order and buy official documents of the dutch commercial registry held by the KvK.
Link: Zoeken | KVK
On the Fairphone website, you will see that this company manufactures and sells one product (and a derivative): the Fairphone 3 (and the derivative Fairphone 3+)
Link: Fairphone Shop | Fairphone
According to the Fairphone company blog post “Launching Fairphone 3: Dare to care” of the 27 August 2019, the number “3” is representative of the generation because Fairphone writes: “This is our third generation Fairphone and we’ve learned a lot through experience” and again “This is our 3rd generation phone”.
Link: Launching Fairphone 3: Dare to care - Fairphone
You can read the Fairphone 3 product webpage and other pages including various official blog news. You need to combine a few pieces of information together.
First, you will notice that anybody with an internet access and a web browser can order a Fairphone 3.
Second, there is no mention that it is an experimental product. For full disclosure, I inform you that I read the main content of the main pages and blog news of Fairphone. I have not read footnotes, long legal documents (such as Standard Form Contracts), etc. I do not have acess to internal documents of the Fairphone company.
Third, if you read the text you will notice that Fairphone’s marketing strongly implies that it is a final product:
“Made with care for people and planet. It’s got everything you’d expect from a great phone — and so much more”
https://shop.fairphone.com/ch_en/fairphone-3
“our phones are backed by our 2-year warranty”
https://shop.fairphone.com/ch_en/fairphone-3
“Easy to use Android 10”
https://shop.fairphone.com/ch_en/fairphone-3
“You can access all the usual apps from the Google Play Store to get your new phone set up and ready to enjoy”
https://shop.fairphone.com/ch_en/fairphone-3
“To help you make a stress-free switch to Fairphone 3, check out our handy guides:
– Switching from iPhone to Android
– Moving from another Android phone to Fairphone”
https://shop.fairphone.com/ch_en/fairphone-3
“Ready to capture all your best moments with friends and family. The front and rear cameras embrace natural lighting and colors, giving you beautiful photos, videos and memories”
https://shop.fairphone.com/ch_en/fairphone-3
“Our first challenge was to prove you can make an ethical phone and survive. Now we’re out to prove to the industry that it’s the best way to thrive.This is our 3rd generation phone. We’ve learned massively through experience, and that’s essential when you’re blazing a trail for which no map exists. We’ve strengthened and professionalized our organization. We’ve built a more stable and scalable company. We focused on further improvement of our product and supply chain, and we’ve worked on expanding our impact and sales” (Fairphone company blog post “Launching Fairphone 3: Dare to care” of the 27 August 2019)
Link: Launching Fairphone 3: Dare to care - Fairphone
“at the end of this quarter, the Fairphone 3 will be on display in approximately 1500 stores throughout Europe” (Fairphone company blog post “Fairphone 3 is opening doors to new markets and partnerships” of the 27 february 2020)
Link: Fairphone 3 is opening doors to new markets and partnerships - Fairphone
“at the end of last year, we announced a strategic partnership with Vodafone which will directly affect our visibility in a number of countries” (Fairphone company blog post “Fairphone 3 is opening doors to new markets and partnerships” of the 27 february 2020)
Link: Fairphone 3 is opening doors to new markets and partnerships - Fairphone
“In France, our ongoing Orange partnership has been instrumental in encouraging other resellers to come along for the ride. In Germany, which is still topping our sales charts, the Fairphone fans at mobilcom-debitel gave us in-store visibility at all their stores (about 550). We’re also working with all the major operators there, including Deutsche Telekom, Vodafone and Telefónica. In the UK, we recently started a new collaboration with Sky Mobile. In Belgium, we’re working with Proximus, whose CEO presented their new sustainability strategy with a Fairphone in his hand. Finally, closer to our home base in the Netherlands, we’re still working with KPN (a partner from day one!) and are expanding our collaboration with Belsimpel” (Fairphone company blog post “Fairphone 3 is opening doors to new markets and partnerships” of the 27 february 2020)
Link: Fairphone 3 is opening doors to new markets and partnerships - Fairphone
You can read the briefing of the NGO Oxfam “A Europe for the Many, Not the Few” of the 8 september 2015. A press release gives a summary : “Between 2009 and 2013, the number of Europeans living without enough money to heat their homes or cope with unforeseen expenses, known as “severe material deprivation”, rose by 7.5 million to 50 million people. These are among the 123 million people(1) - almost a quarter of the EU’s population – at risk of living in poverty, while the continent is home to 342 billionaires”.
Link: Increasing inequality plunging millions more Europeans into poverty | Oxfam International
From 2015 to today, many bad things happened, including the current global COVID-19 pandemic and economic crisis. Time will tell but it is probably now much more than a quarter of EU’s population who is at risque of “severe material deprivation”.
Link: Pandemic profits for companies soar by billions more as poorest pay price | Oxfam International
There are of course traditional low income or low middle income mobile professions (travelling salesman, mason, plumber, taxi driver, paramedic, home health nurse, classic temporary workers and many others).
In addition to these traditional professions, even more precarious jobs have spread dramatically these last years called collectively “gig economy”.
Link: The Guardian view on the gig economy: stop making burnout a lifestyle | Editorial | The Guardian
Link: The main tool needed to work in the gig economy? A smartphone. – The Irish Times
And last but not least, suprisingly, on the very low end of society, homeless people depend heavily on their smartphone for their very survival.
Link: https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2015/oct/01/smartphones-are-lifeline-for-homeless-people
You can read the same references that concern the quote above the previous one.
What follows are not notorious facts (hard facts) or pure facts. It is my opinion in the form of a question. Of course, this questions has to be based
- on the notorious facts (hard facts) from the previous paragraph
- on a few other additional notorious facts (hard facts) about economics 101 (investors, donors, buyout, takeover) and law 101 (good faith principle in sale contract, bankruptcy law, commercial law) which, I really hope you are not going to categorize as “just my perception”.
If you read my original post, you will notice that I imply all possibilities (because of the lack of information, specifically defective products statistics):
hypothesis 1: Fairphone is selling a generally working product
hypothesis 2: Fairphone is selling a generally faulty product
Of course, if Fairphone is selling a generally working product, there is not much to say except that everyone is happy (company, investors, donors, customers, etc).
If Fairphone is selling a generally faulty product, there are many more things to say. Ergo, I use more words for this possibility. It has nothing to do with my own experience which is discussed in an other thread: FP3 reboots during phone calls
Well, nobody can be clear all the time to everyone, so there is nothing to feel bad about, but thanks.
I just hope that we will stop focusing mainly on
- form
- one’s inner state of mind, intention, etc
- notorious facts (hard facts)
Best regards,
Swiss-fairphone