Manufacturing in China

How can a phone be “fair” when manufactured in China? I don’t get it.

  • When I search Fairphone website I cannot find information on production countries.
  • When I ask AI “ what phones are NOT produced in China” Fairphone is mentioned as an option…but.
    -When I ask the same AI if Fairphone is made in China, the answer is YES it is in fact made mostly in China.
    China is not a fair and free country. They don’t have a working democracy. They use massive social control and surveillance.
    So I have questions:
  1. Where is Fairphone actually produced and how many % of components are produced in non democratic countries?
  2. If still produced in China - how is this considered “fair”
  3. Why is this information not readily available on Fairphone website?

The impact report will tell you how they are fair even if they produce in China.

For me its very visible how and where the phones are produced.

It is very difficult theese days to find countries who produce smartphones other than Samsung/south korea

Thank you - but I find it misleading and I think it would suit you to state openly on your web page that your phones are in fact manufactured in China and not in a democratic country.

It’s communicated several times on the webpage of Fairphone, maybe not really popular, but the information is available, e.g. here:

@AgentP: I have a similar mindset like you regarding China. But this problem was created by western capitalistic systems and now China is clever enough and beneficiary from this situation. They rose from cheap productions over copying and adapting products to the step where they are able to develop quite OK consumer goods. All just because some managers in the “old world” with their greed are fighting for each penny.

But even in China you can somehow produce fair. If you send an order to China, you can still select the manufacturing supplier on your own (no chinese state control yet). And you can also take care for the fair production because you can define the production conditions. Mainly depending on how much money you invest.

By the way, it’s not the phones from @yvmuell, she’s just mod here in a community forum.

Check if the labels on your clothes, hats and shoes say “Made in China”.:rofl:

To be honest, what is not made in China at the moment? Almost everything is made cheaper there and as long as it’s cheaper to make it there and ship it over the globe to anywhere, local production capacity will not be used.

The only thing huge tarrifs does, is to punish local buyers from buying remote instead of local, as producting locally what is wanter by consumers is usually not an option anymore. (no skilled labour anymore due to off-shoring of work)

100% ‘fair’ is an utopy no company will (almost) ever reach, just because ‘fair’ is term that always a limited reach. Is it fair to ask others to sell their time so you can have a nice gadget?

Is the political system of China fair, the 2 party system of the US where a party can win elections just because they win in mostly unpolulated states instead of by majority vote/change voting districts,…, the Dutch multy party system where a 1 person party (only 24% of the votes) can dictate what is going to happen because the other parties are to fragmented and ‘compromise to much’ (which is the whole idea of a multi party democratic system, get to a state that’s acceptable to all, not just the biggest minority)

Is it fair to destroy the planet now so the current generation can live very comfortably or is it fair to save the planet for future generations and deny the current generations luxery,…

Is it fair to cut down a tree so you can warm yourself and cook food, when there is a birdsnest in it?

Fairphone at least tries to be (a lot) fairer then all other mobile device producing companies by improving the work put into the phone, sourcing of the materials and repairability of the phone, so the planet, workers and owners aren’t treathed unfairly. Yes, it’s a niche market, as those phones are not cheap (But not as crazy expensive as iPhones or Samsung foldables).

For me, it’s worth saving for, no matter where the parts are made and the phone is assembled.

Phones are made in China, and not only them, because all the components required to build them are produced in this country.

You have the right to consider a phone assembled in EU is better but it doesn’t really change anything if all the parts are made in China.

When Apple says it cannot produce iPhones in the USA because of a lack of qualified workers and of local components, it is true. Fairphone is exactly in the same situation :confused:

Fairphone tries to be fair to the workers as well, personally I find that to be the most important part of their mission, so apart from not being possible to take China out of the equation improving working conditions for chinese workers makes total sense.

Yes, so it seems Samsung is more fair than Fairphone

Well yes and no. Buying from China, a non free non democratic country that we have been utterly dependant on is not pushing the world in a fair direction no matter how well the chinese workers are treated. Thank you for the note on @yvmuell

Those are very good points you make. But buying from China, a non free non democratic country that we have been utterly dependant on is not pushing the world in a fair direction no matter how well the chinese workers are treated. I would like to see a company trying so source their raw materials in a sustainable way and as much as possible place their production in democratic counties.

I know - we the democratic world has been naive and are now dependent on states that are openly trying to disrupt our democratic order. That is the whole point that to be fair and move the world in a better direction we need to move our production away from China - it is not enough the treat the chinese workers a little better.

If a phone is manufactured outside in china, it doesn’t have to mean its fair. Samsung produces most of their products in Vietnam, where the working conditions aren’t the best either.

You are absolutely right that Vietnam is not a blooming democracy and I would prefer not to have my phone made there. But it is slightly better than China and they dont have the power that China does to influence and destabilize our democratic world.

From ChatGPT

Vietnam and China are both one-party socialist states, but their political systems, degree of openness, and political participation differ in a few important ways. Here’s a careful comparison:

1.

Political System

  • China: Governed by the Chinese Communist Party (CCP), which has exclusive control over politics, the military, media, and judiciary. No legal opposition parties are allowed. The top leader (President/General Secretary) is now able to serve indefinitely after the 2018 removal of term limits.

  • Vietnam: Governed by the Communist Party of Vietnam (CPV), which also monopolizes power. No opposition parties are allowed. However, Vietnam still maintains a formal collective leadership model—top positions (President, Prime Minister, National Assembly Chair, and General Secretary) are usually held by different individuals, and leadership changes happen more regularly.

Difference: Vietnam’s leadership rotation and term limits create slightly more internal power balancing than China’s current leader-centric model under Xi Jinping.

2.

Elections and Representation

  • China: Citizens can vote in local People’s Congress elections, but candidates are typically vetted by the CCP. Higher-level representatives are indirectly chosen by lower-level congresses, not by the general public.

  • Vietnam: Similar structure—citizens directly elect members of the National Assembly and People’s Councils. However, the CPV screens most candidates through the Vietnam Fatherland Front. In recent years, a small number of self-nominated candidates have been allowed (though heavily restricted).

Difference: Vietnam has had a bit more tolerance for independent or semi-independent candidates at the local or national level, though they rarely win.

3.

Civil Liberties and Freedoms

  • China: Very low press freedom, strong internet censorship (Great Firewall), and harsh penalties for political dissent. Mass surveillance is extensive. Civil society groups must register under tight state control.

  • Vietnam: Also censors media and internet content, and imprisons dissidents. However, censorship is somewhat less technologically comprehensive than in China, and there is a somewhat more active (though still risky) independent blogging scene.

Difference: Vietnam’s controls are strict but less technologically centralized than China’s, and some sensitive political discussions happen online before being shut down.

4.

Rule of Law

  • Both: Courts are not independent and serve the ruling party’s interests. Political trials lack transparency.

  • China: Legal system more formalized in some areas, but party control over courts is absolute. Large-scale political campaigns (anti-corruption, national security) often target rivals.

  • Vietnam: Similar party control over the judiciary, but anti-corruption efforts are more clearly tied to internal party discipline rather than mass ideological campaigns.

5.

International Democracy Indices

(latest available)

  • Freedom House 2024:

    • China: 9/100 (“Not Free”)

    • Vietnam: 19/100 (“Not Free”)

  • Economist Intelligence Unit Democracy Index 2023:

    • China: Score 1.94 / “Authoritarian” (rank ~156)

    • Vietnam: Score 2.94 / “Authoritarian” (rank ~138)

Conclusion from indices: Vietnam is still firmly authoritarian, but scores slightly higher than China in measures of electoral process, political participation, and civil liberties.

:white_check_mark: Overall Summary:

Both Vietnam and China are authoritarian one-party states with no legal opposition and strict control of media and civil society. Vietnam, however, retains more regular leadership turnover, a marginally more open electoral process for some independent candidates, and slightly looser censorship. China under Xi Jinping has concentrated more power in one leader’s hands and built a more technologically advanced, centralized system of political control.

If you want, I can make you a side-by-side table so you can see the differences at a glance.

I have not read what you pasted in from ChatGPT because:

  • ChapGPT is not fair, since all AI companies steal the needed input from the everyone
  • ChatGPT is not sustainable, since today the AI business already eats 3% of the entire worlds electricity and those demands can for a long time not be supplied renewable
  • ChatGPT is not reliable, since it is just a statistic parrot, producing text that reproduces facts only by chance, since is has no concept of facts
  • ChatGPT is biased and reproduces antifeminist and sometimes even facist views

I agree - but this is highly OT.

Yes, it is highly off topic, but what made it so off topic was that I forgot something:

I cannot discuss when someone uses unreliable sources as their base.

I cannot talk about fair/eco-friendly and use LLM based AI.