FP Security Updates need to be more frequent

Manage your expectations, otherwise you might be disappointed :nerd_face: I’ve been waiting for 1,5 years for the update that solves the list of issues. Not just what has been discovered since Android 12.

2 Likes

WoW, that sounds like I could completely forget that something is improving. I actually found the FP4 running Android 11 to be very solid. But with Android 12 is so buggy. I really don’t find that funny anymore.

1 Like

That’s a question of the conditions under which you would like to use the FP4 for a longer time. And there might be the frequence of updates as well be a point, together with an impressingly bad camera software, the photo gallery bug, the low / constantly shifting brightness without remembering own adjustements and the impression of aconstantly deteriorating, uninterested firmware maintenance quality.

If this makes you ordering another phone already after 3 months since you don’t want this ‘experience’ for the next 4+ years, then this truly effects the FP4s sustainability.

Only looking at the production process when defining a product as ‘sustainable’, leaving out software / firmware quality (including update frequency) is drawing an arbitrary line. You can’t define ‘sustainability’ without usability- and that’ll include at least a defined schedule for the security updates!
The FP 4 really is a statement regarding the production process, but not an example of a sustainable mass product which could reach a larger amount of people.

5 Likes

You are correct in the issue that sustainability is a user interface. What is it more important to sustain, your use of the phone or your use of the miners and factory workers.

Ecologically I don’t see an issue, consumerism will trash the environment no matter how long a phone lasts, so it’s down to a) are you as an individual prepared to pay for fairtrade, which may mean your phone rots like a banana or b) do you want a phone that lasts forever.

The choice on what you want to sustain is yours.

The phone is fine, the use and the user may have more obvious problems with a modular phone but in some, and hopefully most, cases will see that supporting and sustaining fairtrade outweighs the sustainability of the phone.

Sadly as business is business, and fair trade is a business, more phones means more business. So those short of finances may want to steer clear of Fairphones

This is a false dichotomy, since “your use of the phone” determines its desirability, without which there are no sales, and with no sales there is no money to pay workers fairly (or otherwise)…
You can’t isolate parts and declare some more important than others, because it’s a whole: Fairphone is a commercial company selling phones built a certain way. Not a registered charity…

Nobody will buy an useless piece of junk just because those who built it were paid a little more than others. So Fairphone need to make sure their phones stay above the pain limit where people who might buy one decide it isn’t worth their money.

You see, before I decided to buy one, I read a lot of online stuff about it, I liked the general idea, but also heard it was, well, let’s say “unpolished”… I assumed that all those problems were about to be fixed (repairability and all), and so I bought me one.
Now, half a year later the “teething problems” excuse doesn’t stand anymore, and if I was looking for a phone today (April 6th 2023), I’m not sure I would still go for the FP4. I’m all for sustainability and stuff, but I do need a working phone. :astonished:

6 Likes

I agree with the sentiment, but it’s your definition of ’ a useless piece of junk’ that is the topic and the individual’s choice.

And note this topic is about the ‘latest update’

The issue is the Fairphone may not be providing flawless updates, quality photos and other delights, it is not waterproof or maybe ‘future’ proof, but generally it seems to be fine for most buyers, given the increase in sales…

The junk side, after all, it’s only a little junky, is well worth the investment in fair trade.

Still to repeat what I have said a number of times
a) I doubt I’ll buy from another company as there is no fair trade aspect, (Shift Phones are getting there)
b) My 2 FP3s over two years old have no problems
c) I wouldn’t advise anyone to buy a Fairphone, it fact I have a policy of not advising anyone to do anything :slight_smile: But if someone truly treasures the idea of Fair Trade I will point out the Fairphone, with caveats :slight_smile:

Unpolished Hmm! I’d definitely say a bit rough, but apparently some people like it a bit rough, though I didn’t want it I can’t say it was unexpected. A daughter pushed me down this fair road. Now ‘we’ have three FPs

So let’s see what happens when A13 comes along with it’s new Android looks and demands on the FP4. Big clock on home screen more manageable ~ fingerprint sensor fussy with banks. Adaptive light sort of sorted, better image capture.

There will no doubt be a lot to talk about, but the fair trade aspect will be at the core.

3 Likes

Okay, I admit “junk” was too hard. My point is, it’s a phone: One is bound to expect some things of a phone, like being able to make phone calls. I spend daily a good hour making/receiving calls on that thing…

Well, I explained that above for one buyer, myself:
I liked the concept, I hoped it wasn’t just hype, and that the problems I was hearing about were temporary and about to be fixed (See my early posts here).

I’m still (mostly) optimistic, but it’s getting harder by the day, seeing there is no visible proof any effort is made to remediate the known bugs. You know, making the difference between “they don’t care” and “they are actively working on it, but it’s not done yet”.

Well, YMMV as they say, but as for me, I first and foremost needed a phone, the “fair” and “sustainable” parts were just bonuses. They were the reason I didn’t go with another Samsung, not the reason I bought a phone in the first place.

1 Like

For me, FP4 is perfect with 2 exceptions:
It has a great camera, the update frequency is not great, but sufficient, especially with Lineage OS, which I have on it. The speaker is very good.
What’s not good: Ghosttouches and the missing pressure sensor

Same same, except I used Pixels in the past rather than Samsungs. The 5-year warranty of FP played a huge part as well as it pretty much guarantees that I will have a phone for 5 years.

Hopefully Fairphone will have figured out how to make a banger by the time it’s time to buy a new phone, or I’m frankly going back to Pixel.

Reminder that the Fairphone 3 is currently still “supported” but shipping the insecure and end of life Linux 4.9 kernel.

1 Like

The fact that Linux 4.9 is EOL does not mean Fairphone does not backport patches to it to keep it as secure as possible. It is a common thing in long-living software products. But I can’t guarantee FP actually does that.

The problems we’re talking here aren’t a result of a ‘modular phone’ design, they’re result of careless software maintenance. For example:
Hardcoding Google photos app instead og linking to the system gallery app seems to be a unnecessary deliberate action
The bluetooth problems aren’t related to a modular design
The brightness isn’t related to a modular design
I suppose the camera app with a 4 to 5 second shutter delay in the dark and bad macro focus isn’t related to ‘modular design’ either…
.

As written above: The careless software maintenance destroys the trust that these tasks might get properly addressed (at least until documented clearly). But that’s again a point for the ‘Communicating with the users’ discussion.

.

Carelessness is not compatible with sustainability. Negligence in one area can’t be compensated with higher effort in another area and the impression of sloppiness / neglect in maintaining especially the most visible part of the phone- the OS with its user interface- will reduce the trust in the other parts of the production process and maintenance.

6 Likes

If I believe the source , not all of the Android kernel 4.9 are EOL.

I don’t know which version is used by the FP3.

1 Like

@Alain_Guillet
Google, Linaro, and CIP are not providing extended support for 4.9 series as far as I am aware, so yes it is very much a dead kernel.

That page you link is outdated, all 4.9 branches linked here have been flagged deprecated: Refs - kernel/common - Git at Google

Here is my table:

3 Likes

Well - I decided to switch to LineageOS 20 and so far everything works absolute perfect and I have “Material You”, configurable notification icons, WiFi quick setting tile, a camera app which does not force you to use Google Photos, a stock launcher which does not force you to have a Google search bar, working “recent apps” button in 3-button-navigation even with Nova Launcher and so on… I even have backup to my Nextcloud server now with the integrated Seed Vault Backup. The only downside is the need of an unlocked bootloader - so no Google Pay and some banking apps may not work - but so far the banking I need also work without any issue. Seems SafetyNet and a locked bootloader are not that important any more for some companies.

It’s a pitty that the official Android version seems to be that hard to get approved by Google - because that’s the only reason I can imagine, why Fairphone not just uses LineageOS as base system.

Let’s hope, that an official version of Android 13 is at least as bug-free as LineageOS 20. But I expect the stock launcher will continue to include the Google search bar and the connection of the camera app with Google Photos will stay as they are - maybe this is a requirement by Google to get certified as an “offical” Android distribution with Google services.

The 4.19 kernel says 2029-01 (CIP). What does that mean? Does this mean that the FP4 can receive kernel updates until 2029-01???

@LibrePhoner

no, the CIP branches are largely geared towards industrial/automotive/partner specific usage.

It can be used as a source for backported patches, but cannot be used directly for Android devices.

It should be noted that the issue with FP3 will happen to FP4, as FP4 claims support until 2026 but 4.19 is only supported until end of 2024.

1 Like

The page I mentioned is an official page of aosp which was updated on the 20 march 2023 according to the information at its bottom. Even if it is not today, it is far from being outdated.

You want to argue about how they don’t always maintain their documentation?

The only 4.9 branch not labeled EOL on your linked page is android-4.9-q which IS deprecated here: refs/heads/deprecated/android-4.9-q - kernel/common - Git at Google

and no commits since January 2023

1 Like

Do you know the snapdragon 750g is 2,5 years old ? Do you think Qualcomm will patch it forever ?