Fairphone 3 more memory - make it last until 2025

Thanks for the detail I can see now how much work you have done to assess this :+1:

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You might be right with your usage profile and the effects - and even that in your case more RAM would be helpful and needed. So your request in the topic sounds legitimate to me.
But I still can’t confirm that everybody having a FP2 has that problem.
I’m using a 5 years old FP2 and it never takes 60 seconds to turn the screen off and it never takes minutes (not even one minute) to start any of the apps I’m using.

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My wifes FP2 starts Apps in seconds. Her Android system (latest fairOS) consumes 25% of the RAM.

I agree on the point that there should be possibilities to upgrade hardware, like the motherboard, to consume less ressources once the phone is too slow for the software. But that’s not always the reason for a slow phone.

And generally speaking: everyone is not everyone.

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Good to hear from you and from Volker that it is possible to still use Fairphone 2 when selecting apps carefully. Heard the same from another Fairphone 2 user by private message. I will try finding which app consumes too much memory to remove that.
And to emphasis this: I am happy with Fairphone, this is why I will buy a Fairphone 3 when my old one will stop working. Getting problems with 2GB RAM is not specific for Fairphone but all older smartphones, and there will not be many phones out there having Android 7.1 running on a 5 year old device still getting updates and spare parts.

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I’m, not sure, whether that makes sense. I’m not even really happy with the upgradable camera. It creates a ‘I want to have this’ feeling for some customers, although it’s not a real improvement, but produces more waste, more shipping action, more pollution.
That would be the same with a new memory option. Some people would like to have it, in spite the fact, that their FP3(+) is still working fine. In addition the memory is installed on the core module, so an upgrade would make it necessary to change the biggest part of the phone. Or buy a new one. That’s what the ‘big bad phone manufactures’ do, change a little bit here, a little bit there and some people are waiting three days and nights in front of the shop to be the first one to hold it in the hand.
So I guess to meet the companies goals, it makes more sense to support the existing phone as long as possible and design a new one, when that’s not really feasible anymore.

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Gradually swapping pages if memory usage is high ensures that the system does not suddenly become extremely slow once it hits 100%, and gives it time to find out which memory pages are really not used frequently.

The FP2 has a long-standing bug where it accidentally kills the launcher. I have not yet experienced it on the beta version of Android 9, so maybe the out-of-memory killer has had an upgrade.

I agree with the additional waste produced by the “i want to have this feeling”. Although, it allows people who want a good camera on their phone to go for a fairphone.
But I don’t agree with your view on the core module. Maybe because my knowledge it not at the same level as yours, you might have more informations as I do. As far as I know, the core module hold with 2 Torx T5 screws and can be removed and replaced “easely”. Thus, providing a better core module, once the current one is really outdated, would not increase waste, but allow people, looking for a faster phone, to only swap one piece - without buying a new camera, battery, plastics, protection, etc. (See step 9 for de core module exchange Fairphone 3 Teardown - iFixit)

@awopbob Although you are correct in saying the core module can be changed or upgraded it’s unlikely to occur as that would probably be for the next generation i.e. the FP4.

Once a new core module has been built then most of the other moduels are probably going to be upgraded and even the form factor may be smaller with a better ratio screen to phone size.

So not really any likelyhood of a RAM upgrade on the FP3

Saying that the FP3 has 4Gb RAM
and
I run a Windows 10 tablet with 2Gb RAM and no problems for some 5 years.

I’m, not sure, whether that makes sense. I’m not even really happy with the upgradable camera. It creates a ‘I want to have this’ feeling for some customers, although it’s not a real improvement, but produces more waste, more shipping action, more pollution.

Although I agree that a business model based on stimulating consumption is perverse, I’m not sure I agree with you on this one. For the impoved camera module, I share your doubt of the necessity. (On the other hand, I think many people don’t have the FP3 for its outstanding photography, so I’d call it ‘mostly harmless’.)

But responsiveness of the screen, the ability to pick up calls, the possibility of keeping a reasonable amount of apps (incl navigation and banking) on the phone, they are necessities (within the realm of a smartphone as a necessity), and apparently you need RAM for that.

Now I’m a layman on this here, but if I can upgrade a laptop with some extra RAM without changing the motherboard, it sounds plausible for phones too. Therefore, my almighty verdict :wink: for this request would be:

:heavy_check_mark: Legit.

(BTW, the suggestion in this thread, of flashing /e/ is also good, I think. Hardware makes a computer fast, software (read: Android) makes it slower.)

But all that works already with the 4GB the current version of the FP3 has.

I’m afraid it doesn’t, because the RAM was in sockets in laptops (it isn’t in a lot of new latops now), that doesn’t work for phones as it would make them far bigger and you have to create a new standard. Just look at the size of a standard S0-DIMM, that won’t fit in the case.

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@Jo8ost

As this is quite ‘a want’ I would like to add to the above quote and my earlier post. The RAM is a part of a single chip the (SoC) (System on a chip) that includes the CPU. So as Incanus said, it isn’t a practical option to have the memory separated from the cpu and other items on the chip, more ~ modules, cost, space ~ for/in the phone.

The FP3 is a 2019 spec and 4GB was standard then. It wasn’t deemed practical to jump ahead of the market even though the phone is designed to have an extended life.

Hopefully the FP4 will have 6 or even 8GB however look at the following just to see the options for 6GB RAM

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There should never be an FP4. Each change in version is a failed paradigm. The evolution should be gradual to make spares compatible as long as it is physically possible. In a couple of years, the FP3+++ should have faster cpu, more ram, better cameras, but the case, battery, screen, finger reader could be the same, or compatible. Just as desktop pcs.

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FP3+++ or FP4 is just semantics, all the rest of what you say is probably on the board of the designers as you speak.

I don’t care about names, whatever sells. But FP1 wasn’t FP2 wasn’t FP3 is FP3+. That was what I meant.

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Ok I’m clearly not understanding what you are trying to say, so goodbye and have fun :slight_smile:

But FP3+ ist basically the same phone like the FP3 with just different cameras, like the FP2, which was upgraded with new camera modules, and the FP1 was reissued as FP1U.
So it’s more likely that there will be a FP4 sometimes, with complete different hardware, than a FP3++ with a new core module.
I can’t see the great advantage anyway, the more upgraded modules will come, the more useless old modules will exist. With a new FP4, the old FP3 can still be used as a complete phone, like a lot of old FP1s or FP2s are still working.

Just to avoid misunderstandings: The RAM in general is not part of the SoC.

In some cases the RAM sits on top of the SoC; this is called PoP (package on package).
This is done in the early models of the Raspberry Pi, for example. And this is done in the FP2, on top of its SD801.

Speaking about the FP3(+):
The SD632 SoC is not able to support PoP. So the RAM sits next to the SoC.
To be even more precise: In this case the RAM is combined with the flash storage in a single chip (on different silicon dies) with 4GB LPDDR3 RAM and 64GB flash (KMRH60014A-B614 by Samsung).

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Thanks to your suggestions I removed some apps completely and limited background services for other apps. Perhaps biggest effect had to close apps after using instead of letting everything open the whole day. With that, my Fairphone 2 is responsive again and I can stay using it until…

Until even that is not enough and all updates will consume the whole 2GB available.
This is not about wanting “the latest” hardware. It is about longevity. I would happily use a Fairphone 1 today, it had all features and apps I need. But it cannot work because actual Android and Apps consume more memory and it is unsecure and not practical to use software of 10 year ago today.

We can and should prevent this happen again by providing new-sold Fairphones 3 with 6 or 8GB of RAM. So somebody who buys this phone today can still use it in 2025.
As far as I understand, the RAM is not inside the SoC but on an extra chip connected to it, and the FP3 SoC can adres up to 8GB (https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/qualcomm/snapdragon_600/632#Utilizing_devices). So starting to produce a FP3 with 6 or 8GB RAM from now on should only cost some Euro extra for each device. Another option would be to make that RAM expandable so I could buy it in 2025 when needed, I don’t know if this can be realized.

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It is not just the memory. It’s also the computational and graphics acceleration power of the SoC, the modem capabilities (5G, 6G eventually), the Bluetooth and Wi-Fi connectivity and of course the OS software support.

“Still usable” is matter of definition. If you want to be running up-to date apps in 2025, the best thing to buy is probably an iPhone.

Best wishes,
Thomas

Please elaborate, since Apple is known for their “you need a new phone” strategy.