Fairphone 1 maintenance comes to an end

[Quiss42]

@ben

It’s clear that a smartphone with a lot more functionality is not that long living as a simple phone. Furthermore, i would really like to know how long Nokia sold spare parts for that old phone.

Dear white knight, it’s far from being “clear” what you are stating here. If you want me to, I can show you a Galaxy Nexus (release year 2011) running Android 6 (OK, actually CyanogenMod 13), which in terms of tech specs is absolutely comparable to a “Honphone V9” aka “that’s what the FP1 actually is”. It can do all the marvellous things you list and buying a battery for it would be about 3 seconds and 10 €.

I still understand why FP pulled the plug now (last second-party batteries for the Honphone were sold some months ago on Aliexpress and are not available any longer), but you should learn your lessons before starting teaching.

[ben]

@Quiss42

If you want me to, I can show you a Galaxy Nexus (release year 2011) running Android 6 (OK, actually CyanogenMod 13), which in terms of tech specs is absolutely comparable to a “Honphone V9” aka “that’s what the FP1 actually is”. It can do all the marvellous things you list and buying a battery for it would be about 3 seconds and 10 €.

I believe you and I said before, that when having (unofficial) long term software updates (if you don’t care who is providing it) and third party parts supply is important to you, buying a very popular phone by a big brand might be better. Both Samsung and Google stopped supporting the Galaxy Nexus years ago (the last update was Android 4.3 in July 2013). It’s a community of enthusiasts and third party battery suppliers that keep the device alive. This is probably a question of scale (and AOSP support).

You made s point here, but it’s not really related to Fairphones End of Life strategy.

[Hecki]

Mariah, you are right 3 years does a cheaper Huawei, on the other hand we all know the Fairphone 1 wasn’t really s Fairphone, it was just a covered phone, same as buying a Samsung TV and label it as Tokio.

So i think we should give Fairphone a chance, but if the FP2 also need to die after 3 1/2 years, i really don’t know what will happen to Fairphone.
May be it will be renamed: say hello to Failphone.

But we need to be fair, and we should give Fairphone a chance.

Ben

[Quiss42]

It wasn’t meant as a point regarding Fairphones End of Life strategy, this is a thing we have to accept. It was meant as a comment on you telling her that she couldn’t expect otherwise, because of technical reasons.

[Emilio_P]

What i should say to my FP1 who still looks for updates every 15 minutes? Could you at least make a patch for that please?
Quite disappointed about the decision, because my FP1 stil works great and could last much longer than 3 and 1/2 years.

[BertG]

@Hecki

So i think we should give Fairphone a chance, but if the FP2 also need to die after 3 1/2 years, i really don’t know what will happen to Fairphone.
May be it will be renamed: say hello to Failphone.

Exactly!
And that’s why I stated in this thread (6 days ago), that FP3 should not be to FP2 as this is to FP1.
If Fairphone with every new phone starts a new production line without any compatibility to the last phone, then the older phone will take the end of FP1. There are not enough FP2 in the world to convince any thirdparty supplier into producing batteries, displays or other modules.
This might only be the case, if FP3 and FP2 do use the same battery etc., as this will increase the numbers.
That is so much more vital, as FP2 with the modular concept is meant to be a long lasting design:

Our mission - We care for people and planet

Every “redesign” that would virtually result in a new design produces an obsolescence of the older design.
As the FP1 was an “off-the-shelf” china-phone, there is no going back to this design as well.

Well, I may be wrong with what I am guessing and I would be really happy to stand corrected here.
But from my point of view, I would not stick to Fairphone, should my FP2 suffer the same fate as my FP1. I still have as a backup phone in my drawer a Sony Ericsson P990i from 2008, that is doing fine (on its first or second battery!) and even my Ericsson T68m from 2001 was working on its second battery, when I last charged it (not too long ago).
It is just to show, that a life cycle of 3 years - to me - is not acceptable, while I don’t care if the tech specs are outdated.

[bxl_11]

OK, thanks to all those who read the ideas and participated.
We all see that FP is suffering a financial burden and can not afford re-development costs, general parts costs etc, though breaking with their goals of longevity with the sudden announcement to the community. If a FP1 breaks, even failed batteries, it will be essentially done, unless by luck from the forum/market something is available.
But for batteries, which are hardly spare parts, more like consumables, there is no development needed, maybe a little testing and just finances.
(@Douwe: your question to @Mariah was not very helpful) no one understands how it got to this. Stefan’s estimate of 20,000 active FP1’s is probably low considering the passion and pride of FP1 owners who touted FP.

Sad but it appears that Fairphone will not change or be willing to try to help with some sort of pre-order/crowd-funding financial options to pursue possible solutions for FP1 batteries, despite all those comments in the forum, on Facebook, the many demands currently(some desperately) in the forum market, or on the disqus blog. It is unfortunate allowing so many FP1 units to die with a lack of batteries, for the many supportive FP1 users. “Touch Wood” my current FP1 continues to work well.
The ideals were good, some impact was seen, and I hope it turns out better with FP2.
Time to close the circle. (Which I assume was what was meant: 1. Announced End of FP1 parts - 2. Discussed: need, FP ideals, comments, basic battery, ideas, options, and financial options - 3. then again, End of FP1, no help being considered for batteries)

[BertG]

@bxl_11

Sad but it appears that Fairphone will not change or be willing to try to help with some sort of pre-order/crowd-funding financial options to pursue possible solutions for FP1 batteries, despite all those comments in the forum, on Facebook, the many demands currently(some desperately) in the forum market, or on the disqus blog. It is unfortunate allowing so many FP1 units to die with a lack of batteries, for the many supportive FP1 users.

Even more sad is, that they most likely have done some calculation on this and yet are not responding or presenting any information.
For example the statement of @anon99326380 [quote=“anon99326380, post:290, topic:30482”]
As with the battery, we take the point that this seems to be very very crucial for a lot of people at least on the forum (which is where the lion’s share of this discussion takes place).
[/quote]
does not give any hint on how Fairphone is going to act on this insight.

And this is not really helpful either

@anon99326380

It is hard now to make you understand how much we have tried to source these parts because we haven’t properly communicated about this. As a company grows, some information becomes confident because there are various external stakeholders out there whose relations a company has to entertain. Thus, this boils down to a question of believing us or not. I am not going to lie about this.

because nobody wanted to be presented with business secrets or was accusing Fairphone of lying. Just something like a cost-breakdown or even a simple announcement, that they are working on it.

This amazing forum should have shown them quite a long time ago, that there is so much creativity and support, they could make use of by just giving some information and listening to the input.

[ben]

@bxl_11

Stefan’s estimate of 20,000 active FP1’s is probably low considering the passion and pride of FP1 owners who touted FP.

I think it’s high. Stefan did have good sources. I also think it will drop considerably by this winter.

That’s important, because even if Fairphone was planning to source new batteries – which, i am sure, they are not – it would probably take several months to get them, let’s simply assume four months ( which i think, would be pretty fast).

By then, even more apps will have stopped supporting the Fairphone 1 (In April, 89,6% of devices worldwide[!] had a newer Android version compared to the FP1, at the beginning of July, it was 91,7%. In Dezember, it might be over 95% worldwide.

And several more FP1’s will have irreparable defects not related to the battery (supply of used batteries and less demand for new batteries).

And then: Fairphone already replaced a good amount of batteries for the FP1/U on warranty. Those might be still working good. Let’s assume of the 20.000, about 18.000 are still using their phone in 4 months (optimistic, i think). Let’s also assume on third of them really needs a new battery (what does need a new battery mean? less then 70% of the original capacity?), that would be 6000 users.

How many of them would be willing to invest 20€ plus shipping in a new battery? I think optimistically, that would be maybe 4000 customers. That’s actually not a high number, taking into account a producer has to be found, batteries need to be tested, certified and shipped. It’s not a large number for chinese and taiwanese companies. All of that has to be supervised by an FP employee…

But: This are very shaky numbers. What if, in fact, only half of the batteries are actually needed? That would be a terrible waste of resources.

No, i think the only solution would be to convince a third party suplierer and seller based in europe to produce and sell batteries for the FP1. And i guess that will be pretty hard.

The FP1 is done, Fairphone is not a charity. It’s a social business, but also a for profit company. To prove it’s point, it has to be one. They made the only reasonable decision in stopping all efforts for the FP1. Let’s look forward to the future. And if you get rid of your FP1, give it away to enthusiasts in this forum or, at least, recycle it properly.

[Stefan]

@ben

By then, even more apps will have stopped supporting the Fairphone 1 (In April, 89,6% of devices worldwide[!] had a newer Android version compared to the FP1, at the beginning of July, it was 91,7%. In Dezember, it might be over 95% worldwide.

Android 4.4. Kitkat for the Fairphone 1 is out there. The alpha-pre3 status doesn’t have bugs that would prevent daily use and it hasn’t prevented me to use it for over a year. Kitkat is still used by 17.1% of all devices (that connect to the Play Store, btw.).

@ben

How many of them would be willing to invest 20€ plus shipping in a new battery?

I paid 12€ including shipping from Germany to Austria for this approach.

[bxl_11]

I guess that I am lucky with my FP1 so far. I am still on 4.2.2, dual sims active, I charge it about every 10 days, apps mostly seem to work fine, AV, voip, mic, music, call blocker, firefox, yahoo/gmail, sudoku, news feeds, kobo/overdrive books(screen is too small), calendar, facebook, clock, radio, guitar tuner, twitter, nightkeeper, basic camera, and some, though I don’t call often, turn wifi on/off daily and have only a few sms messages each day. It has been a great phone. Only noticed that movie apps on airlines don’t work, though I know lots of new apps will may also fail. They sold 60000 units, I hope there are many still running well for a long time.

[a_bet]

Hi Daniel,
thanks for the reply- You did understood what I meant. At this point, assuming that I understood your post correctly too, a question pops up in my mind: so you were not able to predict (sort of) the drop in battery production, right? I don’t want to be rude with this question, it’s just that, to me, the “surprise” of unbeatable bugs in software is easier to understand than end of production of hardware parts.

What is going on in my head now is a conversation between FP and the battery manufacturer like this:
FP: "So, how long will you produce the battery xxyyzz which we sell in our online shop"
Battery Man: “I can’t tell you this my dear customer”.

Best regards,
Andrea

[AnotherElk]

I’ll just leave this here, it’s interesting …

A closer look at the spare parts supply chain - Fairphone

[uBkUN27v]

Thanks for the link. However, not a word again on the actual figures - minimum order quantity and total resulting cost. They keep repeating “we’re a small company with little financial resources”, which is true, but you have a very supportive community at hand. Now if sourcing 1000 batteries would have cost 17 million euros, then I’m making a fool of myself. But you don’t share this number, which I don’t understand.

[humorkritik]

@anon99326380

As with the battery, we take the point that this seems to be very very crucial for a lot of people at least on the forum (which is where the lion’s share of this discussion takes place).

I think you are underestimating the discussions FP1 owners have, with family members, friends, and random internet commenters on other platforms.

And the vague information on “licensed design” regarding the battery specs make me uneasy. Please, if you have a lawyer in the background giving you the advice not to talk to us, state so, and post their statement on this. If you don’t have a lawyer, get one and don’t give us that impression of “we don’t know what we are allowed to say but for undisclosed reasons having something to do with something legal”. Please.

And you haven’t even told us if FP is looking into the idea discussed here, multiple times, to write to FP customers if they would crowdfund and produce a number of replacement batteries.

lear and simple question: would FP support such a crowdfunding effort?
If so, let’s talk possibilities, with a timeline.
If not, explain in short and certain terms why. Please.

[Stefan]

@humorkritik What’s stopping you from organizing a crowdfunding project yourself?

[BertG]

@Stefan

What’s stopping you from organizing a crowdfunding project yourself?

Maybe just the fact, that he has not the necessary background info???
How would he know, where to possibly get batteries assembled at what quantity and price per item. What does he know of shipping etc. Fairphone on the other hand really should have that kind of information, as they have stated, that they really have looked into it and they already have let produce some thousand batteries.

Sorry, @stefan, but that really is a silly question. Especially from you, I really would not have expected this.

@Douwe, @BasVanAbel, @anon99326380
Some enlightenment from your side would be really appreciated. Why not just give a really basic number crunch like: even if we could order xxxxx batteries, they would be yy,- Euro each in sales and we have the risk and costs of storage
But if you don’t ask, you only can guess the demand.

[Stefan]

Seems you don’t know me well enough.

[humorkritik]

I don’t want to sound snarky, but did you read my posts?

[Stefan]

Yes I did. But I also know that Fairphone won’t dedicate any more (wo)man power in trying to have FP1 batteries manufactured.

I’m pretty sure that the third-party-batteries that are out there aren’t produced in cooperation with Samsung, HTC, etc. The third-party-companies simply copy the existing battery and manufacture them. What I’m saying is that one of these third-party-companies has to be convinced to produce after-market FP1 batteries.