Buying a Fairphone with Bitcoin?

No, I compared modern coal power plants to old coal power plants. I did not compare coal to other forms of energy.

The fairphone is a fairer phone than most other phones.
China’s coal power plants are cleaner than most other coal power plants.

Don’t take that as an endorsement of coal, that was definitely not my intent. I’m very much in favor of renewable energy and think that we should divest from fossil fuels as much as possible, and as fast as possible. All I was trying to say with that article is that there is a huge difference in coal power plants that are 60 years old, and modern coal power plants.

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4 posts were split to a new topic: Money - helpful tool or root of all evil?

Good summary of the discourse about sustainability of Bitcoin:

This is simply untrue. Bitcoin uses far, far, far more energy then cash, and likely gold as well. Idk, article didn’t give numbers for how much energy gold production costs, but I can prove it for cash.

Here’s the articles error…

Bitcoin mining will consume 8.27 terawatt hours this year. … [cash production consumes] 11 terawatt hours of energy per year.

While this is true, it’s disingenuous as all get out to say when arguing bitcoin uses less energy, as these numbers actually prove the opposite. There is 70-80 trillion worth of US dollars on the planet in the form of paper moneys. There are around a quarter trillion bitcoins in existence. So, assuming the numbers from this article are correct for power consumption–I have no reason to doubt them–bitcoin has produced, like, one two hundred and eightyth the amount of currency, with three quarters the power of the global cash supply. They “forgot” to scale their numbers…

Haha doesn’t surprise me this info comes from Bloomburg–he’s a very tricky guy. I agree with a lot of what he says, but his actions rarely bare that out his words. I also am probably more aware of his actions then most of yall, as he governs a state that’s ninety miles north of me… He’s an real jerk for the horrid forms of gentrification he presided over in NYC too…

Oh, and if you haven’t figured it out yet, vibe and trx are pump and dumps–you can make a lot buying and selling quickly with the trends daily.

Haha, and to debunk myself a little now, what I just said is sort of disingenuous too. This article was ONLY talking about bitcoin. Other coins–such as ripple–use far less energy to complete transactions then bitcoins original blockchain. I have no idea how much energy they do use, and it seems unlikely that all crypto put together is more efficient, but certain coins are certainly more efficient.

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Finally someone I trust explains this whole cyptocurrency thing to me:

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Nobody else here you trust? :wink: I think that calls for an #efct18 workshop! :muscle: @Marie1 maybe?

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As there was some discussion about bitcoin and the energy demand of sourcing this cryptocurrency, I thought, it might be of interest to some, that there’s a new study published a few days ago on this topic in the journal nature sustainability:
Bitcoin emissions alone could push global warming above 2°C
Admittedly I haven’t read this study yet, as I found it via a daily newspaper, that cited the study saying, that the energy demand for bitcoin for the first half of this year nearly equals the energy consumption of Denmark for a whole year (30.1 Million kWh vs. 31.4).

The site Digiconomist (cited in the newspaper-article as well) shows a huge increase in energy consumption for bitcoin in 2018.


This article has some quite interesting numbers and comparisons as well.

Judging from this: At least bitcoin is not the way to go.
As the newspaper also reports, the reason for this is “bitcoin” using an outdated technology (proof-of-work-algorithm) while other cryptocurrencies using proof-of stake-algorithm or others are more energy-efficient.

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It seems the only payment options accepted by the Fairphone shop are the usual archaic, painful, long-winded and generally regretful banking-related payment methods.


I’m also looking to buy a new phone at the moment, and would ideally like to buy an FP2, but it seems I won’t be able to in this case. Frankly I have lost so much time and money in my life to banks (and Paypal at one time), that I now avoid using them at all costs. Unfortunately, that means people like myself and the OP won’t be able to get as ‘fair’ a deal as we would like for now!

So, as it seems I’m not the only one that would buy a phone with Bitcoin if the option were provided, it would be interesting to know what Fairphone’s stance is on digital currencies, and whether we can expect to be able to pay for our phones in the Fairphone shop with Bitcoin in the short-to-mid term future?

If so, and it’s not going to take more than a month or two to put in place (which as a web engineer I know it wouldn’t!), I might hold out for a while. Otherwise, my only remaining option (and perhaps the OP’s) will be to buy one of the usual ‘brand’ phones from a retailer that accepts Bitcoin :frowning:

Personal experience and/or personal preference doesn’t always translate into a general problem for everybody.
Which country Fairphone would ship to are you in?

Not only because of your personal reasons, but also because the Fairphone 2 is sold out.
The Fairphone 3 is coming, though.

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Credit card, PayPal, and PSD2/SEPA payments (within the EU) are delivered quicker than Bitcoin when it was popular. Because Bitcoin doesn’t scale well.

https://www.europeanpaymentscouncil.eu/what-we-do/sepa-instant-credit-transfer

Since the end of 2010 there is a deposit insurance in the EU of 100.000 EUR (which doesn’t mean it did not exist before in individual states).

Of course, there are doomsday scenarios that a bankrun and deposit insurance leads to huge devaluation of the currency. The moment our banks cannot be trusted anymore, is the moment our economy collapses. Which includes the very economy a few Bitcoin users use. At such point, you won’t be able to HODL when you got nothing to eat.

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Well, “archaic” seems a bit harsh, when it is how almost all money transactions are done.

I, myself, am no friend of bitcoin and the like, as this “currency” is way more speculative than any oter of the major currencies. And I don’t need my daily money to gain a profit or loss from others speculating with it. I rather like to know what it’s worth without checking the value online first.
Call me old-fashioned.

And - not to be mistaken - I am absolutely fine, that you prefer bitcoin over banking-related payments.
Where I really start wondering, is, when the payment method is more important, than the social and environmental issues of the phone you buy? That’s something I do not really understand.
Why is it, you are interested in buying a Fairphone in the first place, if I may ask?
I am really just curious and don’t mean to offend you.

Btw:
Maybe one of the retailers of Fairphone will be accepting bitcoin?
I have not checked, but this might be a possibility.
Here is a list of resellers that sold the FP2 online:

Edit
As I am the curious kind of guy, I checked some resellers:
Cryptocurrencies accepted:
https://www.digitec.ch/de/Information/PaymentOptions

No cryptocurrencies
memo/memolife
fairmondo
ecosto
sinndrinn
vireo
gogreen
belsimpel
mobiel
(just if I got it right)

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I also would like to buy a Fairphone

But the tech stores that I know of that accept bitcoin don’t seems to sell Fairphone. Any tips about a store within EU single market that selling Fairphones and accept bitcoin?

I would not remember, that one such shop is on the list of resellers, that I know of.

Maybe you could ask those tech-stores accepting bitcoin, to add Fairphone to their assortment.
Only this way, do they learn, that there is a demand for fair electronics (in a broader perspective).

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No hope of the company behind Fairphone would include bitcoin as a payment option?

That’s a question to be asked the company.

You find some arguments this community came up with in this thread.

In my opinion bitcoin is highly speculative and its production takes lots of energy; so - to me - it does not seem to be the best choice for a startup selling a fair / ecological product.

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I’m sorry to see FUD like that being spread. I’m not so good in English, so I let Andreas Antonopoulos address the energy concern is this video

This being a community forum, does it mean the company will not engage in the questions talked about here? I’m new here, so I have to ask.

Not in the sense of “absolutely not”, but by and large this is what it means.
Fairphone staff might read along in this forum and engage occasionally, or not. It’s better to not expect them to and address the company directly if you want something from the company. But hold that thought for the moment …

@rae, @lorahaspels: Do Fairphone have a position on Bitcoin and perhaps allowing it as payment in the shop?

Sorry, could you please tell me, what you do mean by FUD?
The video is - in my opinion - not really convincing. Because the two points made are really weak points:


  1. The energy is procuced by plants, that are designed to meet future needs, so lets use this energy now instead of wasting it.

The problem with this kind of reasoning is twofold:

  • When the energy is used up even now for mining, the reserve for future developments is gone and guess what? I already hear the argumente: “We need more powerplants, because the rise in consumption is exceeding plans.
  • As all the energy is used up, the drive to reduce energy consumption and all arguments to shut plants down are countered. Not exactly a good thing in my opinion.

  1. Bitcoin mining obviously is using lots of power. But it’s unfair to mention this, because standard payment is using lots of energy as well (trucks, cash machines, servers for transfer etc.)

That argument is not convincing me as well.

  • If the energy used for usual payments is equaling bitcoin mining, some data for that argument would be nice. But just making a list of energy consuming processes is misleading. A long list seems to imply big consupmtion, which might not be the case. And listing things that belong to investment banking is not volid at all, since banks do more than just payments (that’s no statement of the sense and moral of all those actiions, just a fact).
  • Others doing equally bad is never an argument that bad behaviour is acceptable.
  • The study I already cited above gives some´estimate in comparing energy consumptions:
    Digiconomist: Bitcoin Energy Consumption Index.


Regarding the fact, that bitcoin is higly speculative, just watch the exchange rate and compare it to any widely traded currency. This makes trading in bitcoin and selling goods for bitcoing kind of a gamble; in my opinion that is, of course.

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