Why i think Fairphone OS should drop root and pre-install Google Apps

@ben fair-trade products are not healty because they have to, but (also) because it’s part of their market share. You don’t see them sold in night clubs, but in organic shops. For them, being healthy is even more important than an arbitrary written rule: it’s their ecological niche.

Answering your question, “eating just the cream on a cake” is a metaphor for praising Google’s services while failing to understand or discuss the implications of its licences. In this context, pushing Google services corresponds to offering others that same cake.

That’s one licence. As @HackAR points out, another was accepted before installing the software.
With the installation come all sort of security issues, some of which I raised but nobody cared to object.

You proposed for the free part requiring “tinkering” and for a default installation of Google Appls. There is no practical need for that. An installation icon, a default setting and a short licence agreement is all that’s needed to respect users and make them safe. If I am not mistaken, FP1 did that without any widespread security issues.

Alright, but you too want a discussion on topic, discuss the topic (including others’ objections) instead of focusing on personal attacks.

While I don’t agree that the loss of privacy is the main issue at stake in this thread, I agree with @HackAR that it is underestimated. It is also short-sighted towards the future. The worse impact of a vulnerability is in combination with other vulnerabilities: what if in ten years Google is hacked, or if they give out people’s data (their dreams, loves and fears) to random companies or tyrannical governments? All this not taking into account that a government already seems to have that kind of access…

I guess Chrome will also be installed by default, right?
The Googles eavesdropping tool?

@ben as you stated, it is not about using “Google Apps” or not: it is about installing them by default or not. The advantages of a default installation appear insignificant compared to the consequent disadvantages for some other buyers, making the choice not ethical nor profitable.

One big advantage could indeed come from installing “Google Apps” by default: a partnership with Google. Google can and probably would pay FP a lot of money in fear of a chain reaction that would jeopardize their monopoly of the Android world.

@HackAR what’s the alternative? After Google made arrangements with them, even Firefox connects to google.com every time you launch it (to update an alleged list of malicious websites, i.e. a sort of mandatory supercookie).

The article is about Chrome to record from the mic anytime it wants to.
I can use something like XPrivacy to block Googles IP, can’t I?

They claim not to have activated it yet. For now the scary part is that even its open source counterpart Chromium downloads that binary blob during use without asking permission.

That’s why I don’t like Firefox connecting to Google servers upon every startup, this way Google can block any website they want. I have no problem with companies trojanizing their own products, but they cannot do it with open source ones (no ifs and no buts). This screams collective class action.

I have never used XPrivacy. On its feature list there is no embedded firewall, but it can revoke Chrome permissions to access the microphone, which in this case is enough. Luckily FairPhones are rooted so we can install stuff like XPrivacy :smile:

Hey @Stefan how about a default install of

  • a XPrivacy-like granular permission tool similar to that of BlackPhone’s SilentOS
  • a slim and easy to configure firewall (just to block unwanted IP and DNS)

Only if it does not scare new users and does not cost too much :stuck_out_tongue:

First of all: If you have misconceived me as a Fairphone employee, I am not.

Doesn’t Android Lollipop feature such a permission tool?

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I’m not sure how effective the protection is, since we’re on Android 4.2, but it sure asks me when an app tries to contact some address listing the full target path including the port.

I was going to suggest the installation of XPrivacy, F-Droid and AFWall+ for the default setup, but then we got the info about GoogleApps and the possible lack of Root. Now it seem foolish to ask for things like that.

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I believe “App Ops” was briefly present in an old stock version of Android (4.2.2?) and then it was removed by Google. Something similar is currently present in selected models (BlackPhone, LG G3).

These seem too hard-core for the average user, especially F-Droid. I would vote against installing them by default. What is the current official position of Fairphone on root & “Google Apps”?

[quote=“enos, post:192, topic:5582”]
especially F-Droid.
[/quote]Weird. F-Droid is the least “hard-core” of these 3, if you ask me. It’s just an App-“Store” with open sourced apps only. I trust those more than anything from Google Apps.

You’re kidding right?

The process of applying an app to F-Droid is quite lengthy because they scan every app for anti-features like “tracking”, “non-free add ons” and “ads”. I’m sure in that process they wouldn’t miss it if the app was malware. :wink:

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No, I’m just being plainly ignorant :astonished: thanks for the correction.
Now I read they also compile from source… amazing.

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After some thinking, I’m looking forward to FP 2. Preinstalling GApps is still a step backwards, because simply put it’s an opt-out instead of an opt-in, which is always preferable regarding privacy lowering options. But there will be loads of steps forward in different aspects.

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Considering to purchase the next Fairphone, I’m somewhat disappointed to learn that the Google Apps will be preinstalled.

My question is: Will it be possible to remove them?

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Please read some posts here in this thread, your question has been answered above:

You can also use the “summarize” feature above to only view the most important posts. :blush:

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[quote=“DonAlfredo, post:198, topic:5582”]
My question is: Will it be possible to remove them?
[/quote]TL;DR: No. But there might be an alternative OS provided without Google Apps, without support. You’ll need to install it yourself.

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Well, I’m a little bit late, but I totally second that!
Fairphone should provide an as stable as possible OS for the “normal” users, which are surely the majority.
And for those who want to “hack” or customize their phone, it should be as easy as possible.

There’s only one thing I would want to ponder about:
As I know several people who are absolutely not tech-savvy but have quite some distrust in Google, there should be an easy way even for “normal” users to choose between Android with or without “Google Apps”…

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I hope they will be able to integrate that in the Fairphone Updater. But that might also be something the community could provide?

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[quote=“starfury, post:201, topic:5582”]
And for those who want to “hack” or customize their phone
[/quote]Well, I guess we’re down to the point, where when you can only use your phone is the normal state. And if you want some control over what’s going on, it’s hacking.

Apple was a death blow to privacy… And people are happy with it.

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Sorry, @HackAR, no we’re not. That’s why I used those quotation marks ( " ).
I meant those who want to wield more control over their device than the “common” users, which I guess make up 95 to 99 % of Fairphone or other Smartphone owners.

Please hold back on your agressive fundamentalistic attitude. This should be a reasonable discussion. You’re not helping it.

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[quote=“starfury, post:204, topic:5582”]Please hold back on your agressive fundamentalistic attitude.[/quote]Actually it’s more like a depression. Watching all those people running naked, 'cause they don’t have anything to hide, makes me feel bad.[quote=“starfury, post:204, topic:5582”]This should be a reasonable discussion.[/quote]Tried that. Won’t happen. Just read this and other topics.

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