Should Fairphone prioritize on fixing Lollipop Bugs or upgrading to Marshmallow?

Oh, that’s another point I forgot. I’m not recommending the FP2 anymore, not teaching people how modular it is or what’s the thing with circular economy, or why security updates or an open source OS matter. I can’t. People see the graphical glitches and the 1970 clock when the phone boots up, and all this things lose their value all of a sudden. They then ask about issues I have and I have to be honest.

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I know that feeling, though since I have made good experiences with the regular OS, and only perceive FPOOS a bit edgy, it is not the software that keeps me from showing the phone. In the past it got almost kind of embarrassing when people asked me to show the phone, which was inside a cover that was falling apart. Naturally then you start explaining the downsides of the phone.
Since FP so far refuses to replace a knowingly poorly designed cover, I have now about 1 or 2 months time to show again my phone, before I need to hide it again due to another cover that will fall apart.
Not good advertisement for the company.
And not related to the thread. Sorry for Off topic.

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Do I understand it correctly you rather sell your phone than contacting support and look for a solution?

Well, I am also not sure if it could be related to that particular bug or not.
But givven from my experiences and from what I have read on the forum, it does not seem to me that the proximity bug is causing problems unless with certain 3rd party software.

Having that said, there are plenty of apps that could lead to battery drain, and you will need to find out whether you struggle with that bug or some other app. First way to do so would be checking your battery stats. There a couple of threads here which might help you to find the cause for the sporadic drains.

In short: Your described battery problems don’t necessarily need to be related to a bug in FP(O)OS.

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I think, FP should priorize FP open, or they should handle it the same priority.
And they should also open a beta program for that.
A google-free device would be more fair.
It is not really clear to me, why some bugs are only either on FP open or FP stock.
Do they depend on google services? What has this clock bug todo with google services?
I remember cyanogenmod came without gapps. They could be flashed afterwards.
But there were not more or less bugs with or without gapps.

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There are beta tests for all official FP OSs.

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Really?
I thought there is no beta program for FP open, and nothing planned for that.

The program started with the first Open OS:

EDIT: No actually it really started in October.

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Thx! I really missed that. Registered!

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I would like them to prioritize bringing Marshmallow to Fairphone 2 IF they feel that it could noticeably improve the battery life. Otherwise bugfixing might be better, because of improved stability and me not seeing much of worth in Marshmallow.

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No, you didn’t. I always try to get the best out of it. For that I have got changed my FP2 in warranty last May. But this all doesn’t help much, as long the devs don’t solve existing issues.

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May I ask which specific 3rd party software you’re referring to? I’m suffering heavily under battery drainage. It got a lot better after flashing the old modem firmware, but it’s still a major issue with half the power just vanishing somewhere unknown.

If you read @freibadschwimmer’s posts here or the posts in the bug’s topic (which I’m sure you know as you have posted in there) you’ll know that the bug is relevant if you have apps using the proximity sensor.
If that is not the case for you then you are not suffering from this bug but have a different issue (PS: and should check out the #batteryguide).

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@M…Dammer

I see your points but can only agree on some of them. FP has to move forward to stay in business. Producing permanently new hardware or updated modules would be in contrary to their business values. So the only way, as some other companies do as well, is to advance and fix what´s possible by software.

Some bugs like “battery drain” I cannot confirm. It is no general problem of FP2 imho, but rather (mostly) one of an installed app misbehaving. Also using an additional sd card takes influence on this as I have experienced a few weeks ago. My battery performance got a lot better since I received my phone. Coming through the day on one charge now is no problem at all for me.
This point is also highly depending on each individual user.

Again I disagree, updates mostly keep the product usable.

I do not know if you ever had a bug-free conventional mobile in the past.
Lets see how other companies often behave in such cases as customers have experienced and shared elsewhere on the net.

If a customer realizes a bug and steps up to the manufacturer or trader, how often will he get the attention he expects?

The trader may replace the phone or send it back to the manufacturer. The manufacturer very likely will not take any actions unless it is a major problem coming up more often. So there are two solutions usually remaining: Deliver a bug-fix/update whenever the manufacturer feels like doing so, or send back the device with the statement: the problem could not be reconstructed or the installed app was faulty. It is to be assumed that your device was factory-reseted anyway which in most cases solves any bug or problem.

So I think with FP there at least is a chance to get some help on an individual basis, with the drawback of delays.

This clock bug is in FPOOS if I have read correct. Somewhere in this forum I could read that standard FPOS is being treated with higher priority than every alternative OS. Generally spoken I would not expect having too many bugs squashed in FPOOS by FP as their main focus is on FOS. Also I would not blame FP for this, as it is a free give-away for the community to take care of which obviously does not work very well.

@paulakreuzer

Yep - I am most sure about this. This process is not much different than on conventional computers, updates are made to fix bugs - and sometimes bring up new ones which require an update for fixing again…this is and always has been an ongoing process since computers exist. Never ever there was a bug-free Windows on the marked, so why and how FP should ever achieve this state?
Expectation of this kind are simply unrealistic…this is just for consideration.

@Stefan

Yes - I totally agree on this!
Pushing out new hardware regularly is not the right way for FP. But keeping the existing “interesting” for users and potential customers is a way when working on the software side.

Imagine this objective case:

Someone (again) needs a new mobile stepping into a sells shop. Fed up having to replace the old one again. Now there is the FP2 which is sticking out of the mass, but:

  • Developed some when in 2014??
  • Android 5.1 lollipop? (which actually is still one of the most used Android versions next to KitKat)
  • Camera is acceptable, (but maybe therefore is a conventional camera available or a better module soon??)
  • Not shiny and slim as the old handset
  • Not waterproof
  • Not rock stable as the Kyocera Torque
  • Who is this “Fairphone”, never heard of
  • WHAT - >500€

Salesman, what else do you have in your shop here…?

But now the other point of view:

  • Aged hardware, but running Marshmallow anyway…hm
  • Performing as good as or better than the old broken handset…fine
  • True regular updates from the manufacturer…that´s ok
  • Different covers for choice to change…interesting
  • Replaceable battery…oh - well that is the reason for needing a new device again (my personal most important)
  • Reparable, myself if I can without loosing warranty?..that would help for the old device, but…
  • Modularity? Where comes this from…?
  • Different OS can be installed if Android is not preferred…since when this Is possible and legal??
  • Device may be rooted - legally…where are the hidden drawbacks, man?
  • Dual-sim, what? Show me - now…
  • Dedicated sd card slot (up to 200GB!!!)? keep on talking…
  • There may be better modules available at some time due to its modular design…sounds future proof and durable to me
  • 500€, only? - for all this? Are you kidding me?

There were several hundreds of € spent in the past for conventional handsets and not even one could offer half of these features. Not for 100€, not for 500€ and couldn´t even for 1000€. Even Google put their ARA approach to an end after Fairphone made their move.
Good for you Fairphone - very slick move, indeed. “Rogue One” of more to come hopefully…:grin:

@explit

Maybe running a Marshmallow based OS does fix some bugs as well??

But this seems to be business as usual these days. It seems to work perfectly for many big players like: VW, GM, Boeing, M$ (Vista/10), Samsung, LG (spying TV camera bug)…BUT Fairphone is still in its startup phase having to carefully consider which next step to take for not to ruin the s***t as even much bigger companies has done in the past self-overestimating their capabilities. Nokia, GM, Chrysler (there were times of bankruptcy in the near past), CBM…

I don´t know what else other people do with their handsets, beside keeping on dropping, draining them or keeping these fragile items in tight pants pockets wondering why they operate bad, maybe installing apps being buggy as well. Pushing everything to FP seems the most easy way, as developers often do not care if their app is incompatible or buggy. Not every bug can be fixed by the OS.

I guess that is what you get when giving too much freedom to the user. Afterwards I believe FP could do better with simple usual Ale, Sa**ng warranty regulations. They would leave the option of buying a new device if used improperly. Maybe some day the user would learn his lesson, but some just won´t.

Probably it is me not using my phone properly as I am totally satisfied with it and it does all what I bought it.for. I am not pushing it to the limits, not rooting it, maybe then more bugs would show up, but maybe not - who can tell for sure…

@Roboe

Interesting argument. I thought so too by just using it and browsing through folders with total commander. I got Linux to know as a well structures OS knowing what was done and going on, other like this chaotic M$ product. Android looks to me as a quick and dirty setup to new hardware without going into many details…and now it is running and changes require (backwards) compatibility.

@freibadschwimmer

I agree, this counts for users experiencing problems, not me atm.

@Heiner

I had this two weeks ago as I also posted here in the forum after I have had found the cause. It was triggered by my action, not any OS bug.

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I consider FP Open more than a “free give-away for the community to take care of”. It is an officially supported OS and you can expect the same customer support as if you’d be using FPOS with Gxxgle. Plus community members can contribute (code.fairphone.com/gerrit), even if gerrit has a terrible UI, IMO.

I think that’s the crucial point. Fairphone gives its customers freedom, but they are never satisfied and always want more and more.

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I think different here. As FOS is shipped as standard OS with each unit it should have slightly higher priority as this part brings in some money.

But everyone now has the tools needed to build his own OS port.
If someone knows how to he could fix e.g. this clock bug by himself, and better yet - provide the solution to FP and the community.
After all it looks like complaining is the easier way.

I can understand if FPOS has higher priority because the user base is bigger and hence I do agree with you. I was talking about contacting customer support. Your statement from above sounded as if FP Open users were left on their own, which they aren’t. When they contact Customer Support, they get the same attention as a FPOS user, unlike someone, who runs SFOS or Ubuntu Touch.

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I wish, that the FPOOS has the same priority than FPOS. One point is the different release date.
But FP was able, and I hope they will keep able to release monthly updates. And we know from Android devices, they are most times not dying by hw defects. They get unusable with security bugs never be fixed, as the manufacturer abandoned them because of new products without a significant technical improvement.
There are still annoying bugs, but at least we get the latest security updates.

The freedom you have with free software is the requirement, that the device is really yours. I don’t feel, that the users of FPOOS want more and more. They just want to have the annoying bugs fixed. I thank FP, that they released an open variant. I don’t know a manufacturer, who also does it, except Jolla mostly. But it should get the same care.
For me, I would pay a small amount monthly for the OS development. But then I would expect something more.

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Then you know what you need to do. Go start a campaign to raise awareness about the benefits of Open OS to all Fairphoners! :slight_smile:

PS: I just made the first step:

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Nearly impossible. That is what I try since years. Also on PC. You can’t win such a campaign.
People want the playstore with thousands of torches spying. They want whatsapp, facetube and the google services. They do not know the alternatives mostly.
But FP is bringing that a little bit nearer. For a beginner it is somewhat harder to switch to a free OS on other devices.

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