Singal allows reproducible builds, WhatsApp only comes from a cloud store. Paranoid dentists would smoke smartphones. What was the question again? 
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Everything you say is very interesting.
So, I think my main question is: is current version of WP worse than telegram or similar apps?
I do not like WP also because it’s Zukerberg’s and I think he owns already too many personal data, even if not mines (I’m not on fb).
However messaging apps are indubitably useful, especially for people travelling a lot like me. Therefore, before getting a smartphone I though I would be OK with using telegram, for instance. So, besides been Zukerberg’s, is now telegram better, or more privacy aware, than WP?
I’m not an expert. I think you have to decide what’s important for you: Staying in contact with your friends easily? Fighting facebook? Meeting new people? What do your friends use?
What I was mainly aiming at: Smartphones are not secure and companies make money selling your data. They want you to stay around. So they adapt because they want to stay in the market. Apple and Facebook know how to do marketing AND how to stay in business.
Both MM/signal and WhatsApp try to be “user-friendly” and that’s important. You can update them easily and in a secure way. They are maybe not 100% secure and they never can be (your phone cannot be trusted) but they are “good” enough 
Currently I would say it goes: WhatsApp, Signal, Telegram
Don’t think too much about it. Enjoy spring!
Update: And keep in mind that things are changing all the time.
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Privacy is important but staying in contact with friends and family is important too. I installed Threema on my FP2 because I think it is the most trustworthy of the messenger options, but only two of my friends use it. Everyone else uses WhatsApp. That’s why I gave in and installed WhatsApp too.
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Another question I have is: how does WP make money now? Are metadata enough?
If someone has FB and has used non-encrypted WP until now, I guess they already have enough data to go on even with the new encrypted WP.
But if I start using WP now and have no FB, how much will they ever know about me? How will they be able yo make money just with my metadata?
You stay in their infrastructure. The goal of Facebook is that you do not leave it. Some people think the Internet is Facebook.
But they also know that you want to keep talking one to one to your friends in private. Else you use Snapchat or worse. Your mother, colleges, and boss are on Facebook too, right? But they need your info for their timeline. This is what they sell. As long as you do something with your friends or alone and post about it later, they don’t loose much.
Loosing you to another service is worse (from their perspective).
If you want to learn more, read about Facebook’s upcoming F8 conference or check what’s going on AI-wise.
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@Bergziege: did you test this recently? As per my knowledge, Whatsapp will not start if you reject address book access using CM’s privacy features. The only way to prohibit WA to access the whole address book is to use xposed framework with xprivacy.
However, this information is approx. one year old, so I’d be interested if this has changed in the meantime.
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I test installed it on my FP 2. I’m using app ops and just denied everything… It starts, but says none of my contacts uses wa. Which is not true, but shows that wa has no access to my contacts. So, either cm permissions work differently or they changed something
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As there is no CM for FP2, I can’t test this.
But as I recall it was working on my OnePlus 1. (But again, I don’t know if this was a clean install or if I restored from a WA-Backup).
But your contacts (those who grant access to their address book) see that YOU have WA, don’t they?
I still have to ask, to be honest…
Sorry, I am not sure I understand what you are saying. I am not on FB
and I will not be; I am just considering to use WP. Therefore I won’t
have a timeline and I won’t post about anything. I might only send
messages, pictures etc.
Is what you say still true in my case?
Il 11/04/2016 18:37, fp1_wo_sw_updates ha scritto:
Hello morgenstern,
"The thing is, as you probably know, social pressure for using WhatsApps is very strong.
Until now the problem for me was automatically solved because I did not have a smartphone; so, no WhatsApp, ".
Same situation for me, but who after all cares if you start off with Telegram, Signal or WA as no one even have had a digital link to you up to now??
I took the easy way for me - who ever respects my considerations will run Signal/Telegram AND if he wants, also WA for the others.
Believe me, any Androidphone can handle this…
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This has been my main approach in the last years, also, nowadays
unlimited SMS are basically included in any phone all-included plan. The
thing is, traveling abroad SMS are not an option anymore. Emails are,
but people do not use them so much for daily conversation.
Il 11/04/2016 19:48, Patrick1 ha scritto:
Nope, but I assume all these external services will one day merged into the Facebook app or will behave very “Facebook” like. Not today, not tomorrow. But maybe next week. For now, just use it and if it changes, change the application. Facebook (or other services you will use) will still be able to get your “social graph” (whom do you spend the most time with, when, how often you write them …).
Don’t worry and if needed just switch to Signal or Threema. Or what ever else is out there.
Just did a test. Mind you, the person I got hold of is not very computer savvy, but maybe this makes the test all the more realistic 
He could not see me, even though he has me in his contacts, but he could invite me and start a chat. Tried to exit and kill all WA services and restart it, the chat was still there and could be resumed. Somehow wa offered me to enter him into my contacts, in a way that looked like it did work, but a later inspection showed no traces of a WA code of his…
I’m not an expert, but apparently refraining altogether from a push messaging service and sticking to SMS is not a great strategy to protect one’s privacy either: According to the Whisper Systems blog, SMS is a “security disaster”.
Are you aware that Telegram stores a plaintext copy of each and every regular (non-secret) message on their servers? That is the opposite of secure.
I used to use Telegram, too, and honestly I maybe managed to have one in ten conversations as a secret chat - the UI is not really inviting you to have secret chats, and my little-privacy-concerned friends started regular conversations all the time. Also, group chats cannot be secret by design. I don’t think Telegram should count as a private messenger in the first place.
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Alfonso_Muskedunder:
I wasn´t aware of this detail as I at last read some general information about Telegram being a “secure” alternative to WA and the user would have to manually switch on encryption mode when having conversations. But as you write “(non-secret)” means exactly this. I say, out is out, no turning back or entirely deletion. I´m not surprised finding (non)-secret information anywhere on the net since data protection and privacy regulations are often violated.
Furthermore I got the impression while reading posts that many users set Telegram on an equal level with Signal.
Anyway my first choice was Signal as I believe, if it´s good enough for Edward and recommended by him it should do well for me too.
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I’m sure you are right, but then it depends on what kind of privacy you care most of.
One kind of privacy is the one against the government and police. I personally think that this kind of privacy basically does not exist today. The proof is the San Bernardino case; they can get anything if they want. I am sure SMS are useless for this kind if privacy, but I’m sadly convinced that nothing is safe for this kind of privacy. Also, even if it is unfair, I think it is reasonable for police to check personal communications if they are investigating on someone.
Another kind of privacy is the one from private companies doing data mining for profit. Maybe it is because I’m a social researcher, but I like to choose when I give my personal data for research. I find it to be very unfair to make money out of personal data, especially when these data are collected by basically unaware and uninformed subjects.
So, IMHO, SMS might be very bad for the government-related privacy, but I think they are better than WP for companies-related privacy.
Anyway, the one about the various kinds of privacy is another big debate I’m not sure it’s safe to start here.
SMS are quite convenient from my point of view, but of course they lack features comparing to today’s chat services.
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