English

NFC is more than just wireless paying

nfc
Tags: #<Tag:0x00007fefc1535238>

#1

This message is originally from another thread, i didn’t want to just start an advertisment on the forum about NFC ^^

NFC ils not just about payment, its about superfast Bluetooth pairing, quick file transfer, smart actions, computer unlocking,instant information (for example, in my city, we have NFC tags at bus stop to know when our bus will come)…and more !
Honestly, NFC is the number one thing I’m waiting for my FP2, I had it on my two last phone, it made a LOT of things easier !


When does FP2 support NFC?
:pencil2: FP 2/3/... Modules & Wishlist
#2

That’s your opinion and I find that some parts are arguable:

Pairing is done once when you get a new phone or a new gadget. So bluetooth paring is to bluetooth connection what smartphone boot-up time is to lauch time of apps (in terms of frequency).

Fingerprint sensors are much more secure (someone would have to cut your finger off, instead of simply stealing your phone).

We have those too, but I don’t think that many people use them. There are location-based apps that can do the same, as well as QR-code approaches that are accessible to many more devices (they only need a camera).


#3

Someone can simply dust your fingerprint from any surface you touched (like your phone) to have all the data they need to hack your fingerprint.

Or they could hack the database where all the fingerprints are stored and have access to millions of people’s devices.

I’m not saying NFC is saver though. I actually believe credit cards where you still have to swipe are much safer than the contactless ones that can be “swiped” by someone simply holding some device to your wallet.

In conclusion I do think @Elipsus has a point and there are a lot of benefits to NFC, but I hope if it comes to Fairphones it will be a bonus-module, not a standard feature.


#4

Its all about convenience, and what modern computing should be : seamless !

  • For Bluetooth, I have something like 6 different Bluetooth devices (car, earphones, speakers, computers…), by default, when I enable the Bluetooth, the Fairphone will try to connect to the last I used, even if its offline, its always eating my time to select the one I want to use, with NFC, I just unlock my phone, and… contact…it enable Bluetooth, it can power on the earphones, and automatically start music !

  • Computer unlocking : okay, you are right :slight_smile: , but having the choice is nice !

  • About unlocking stuff, my brother use a yubikey with NFC, and the yubikey unlock his keepass database, just by putting it on the phone, I also stumbled across NFC ring to unlock your phone, it seemed super convenient !

  • About buses, I know about qr code , I “use” them :

    • In the nights the flash will burn it: unreadable
  • If you have some reflections : unreadable

  • If the code is dirty : unreadable

  • If you are not completely aligned : unreadable

I used it to have my bus ticket on my phone, but, no exaggeration, it doesn’t work, it fail to read it 4 times out of 5 and I end up trying to make it work for 30 sec, and buy a ticket , and if i’m in a hurry, 5/5 it won’t work either ^^.

I understand your point, we can perfectly live without NFC, but…cmon, it’s a smartphone, the whole concept is to make our life easier, and NFC is the perfect example of making thinks a lot easier !

About hacking database: same goes for any password :slight_smile:


#5

I see your points and I have to admit I haven’t used a NFC phone (the FP1 is my first smartphone).

Paying anything with / on my smartphone is a no-go for me in general, so that’s not valid for my use cases. If I had 6 bluetooth gadgets NFC would probably quite convenient. Still I’m asking myself whether implementing NFC is worth the effort (think resources too!). That’s mainly the reason why I only have one bluetooth enabled gadget, and even this loudspeaker was a present I had no influence on (haha, it even has NFC… :sweat_smile: ).

PS.: See my struggle to decide on bluetooth vs non-bluetooth headphones. :wink:


#6

True, but it’s easier to change your password and even use different passwords wherever you need one than to change your fingerprint or carry a box with different fingers with you.


#7

Hi all,

yubikey is for me one of the “killer” features, that me want to have NFC on the fairphone:

I’m already using yubikey for all this stuff on all of my other devices… via USB.
Having NFC would open this also for fairphone, please don’t tell me to use a USB dongle on fairphone for that :wink:


#8

Passwords should never be stored in plain text form, but only in hashed form. Even if someone hacks the database, he only gets the hashed strings, from which the original password can’t be guessed.
I haven’t done any research, and if I’m wrong please correct me, but I don’t think fingerprints can be stored in a hashed form and still be useful.

Also, as @paulakreuzer already pointed out, there’s no way for you to change your fingerprint afterwards. A fingerprint should much more be considered as being a “username” than it is a “password”.

(Of course, out there in the wild, a lot of web services are run by incompetent fools, and many of them still store user’s passwords in plain text. People seem to just not learn form other’s mistakes…)


#9

We have QR codes at public transport stops. It links to a website where you can look in real-time when the vehicle will come. You need only a camera, not a NFC module.

Here in Dresden, many stops have displays which show the minutes until the vehicle will come. For that, you don’t have to take any action, you don’t even need a smartphone.


#10

You don’t even have to go anywhere the person was before. in fact it is enough tho have a picture where you can see the right site of the finger.

Sorry for the german reference.

In short there are 2 cases discussed in the article. One where the politicians iris was Tacking from an voting advertisement to trick out the iris scan and one where the fingerprint is photographed from 3m distance and the photograph was good enough to make a fake finger which tricks out the fingerscan.


#11

OK, I concede defeat! :flag_white: :wink: Thank you all for the interesting facts regarding fingerprint sensor. So it’s another no-need-to-have…


#12

+1 for NFC

nowadays even powertools got nfc interfaces: https://www.protoolreviews.com/tools/power/cordless/grinders-sanders-cordless/festool-ets-ec-150-brushless-sanders/16430/

The point is, you buy a fairphone to use it for years and the number of NFC usecases is constantly growing.
So a Non-NFC-phone is getting less usefull day by day.

eini


#13

I switched from a Sony smartphone to a Fairphone and NFC is something I really miss. It might seem like a small feature but it makes so many thinks just a bit easier and more comfortable.


#14

I have Type 1 diabetes and use the Freestyle Libre flash glucose monitoring system by Abbott. The sensor on my arm connects to the reader by, you guessed it, NFC. If you’ve got an Android phone with NFC you can download one of several different apps and read the sensor directly with your phone instead, and then automatically upload the data to the cloud and run all types of exciting, futuristic analyses on it.

That’s why I really want an NFC module or case. Buying stuff with my phone would just be a cool bonus!


#15

In my private and professional environment nobody has a serious use case for NFC. As for wireless payments or other sensitive communication it is generally considered as a security risk.
Personally I share this opinion. Never use it. It among the first things I deactivate on a new phone…


#16

I really would like to have the choice to deactivate…:wink:


#17

I have Bluetooth speakers with NFC. It would be super nice if I could say to my friends: “Do you want to put your music on? Sure! Just tap your Fairphone on the box”

This is not only convenience, this is analog interaction - and we sit in analog bodies. Everytime we want to connect digital interfaces, we have to bridge it with some grafical interface on a screen. And while focusing on that screen, we are a bit distant from our souroundings.

This brings lagging into social communication flow.

Also I just realized, blind people cannot use gui and may benefit from analog interaction via NFC.


#18

Another situation for my bloetooth speakers:

"Hey mom, why don’t you play this youtube song on the speakers here -

Just tap your phone here"

VS

“Just pull down the taskbar, ah no you need to tap up there again, yes, tap on the little arrow besides the bluetooth icon, its the little b thing, yes, then search for SOUND-PAL-321, oh ok you just sent me the link on telegram. That works too.”


#19

Well, for my bank card I explicitly need to enable NFC (RFID), and it only works if its kept very close, and only for amounts of 30 EUR or less.

Swiping your bank card has 2FA, but which 2FA? Well, a barcode behind a magnetic strip, and a 4 number PIN. Typing your PIN requires privacy, but whilst you’re in public it is NEVER adequate.

The same if you use public transport in The Netherlands (or Oyster card in UK): you gotta keep it very close to the authentication point.

I currently use a Bluetooth watch for authentication. If I were typing my PIN of my phone all the time I would 1) lose 5 seconds of my time too often 2) I’d not have adequate privacy and people and cameras would easier be able to see my PIN 3) it protects me good enough against thieves. NFC (with a NFC key, like a YubiKey NEO, which I already own) would be a great alternative because it costs less electricity. EDIT: and it requires a more pro-active form of authentication compared to Bluetooth!

An NFC chip on a phone is very useful. If I had one, I could even ditch my public transport card and use my phone to log in and out of public transport.


#20

+1 for NFC :grin:
Wäre super, wenn es dieses Modul zur Nachrüstung gäbe.