Leaving a movement (FP3 Era)

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Well, it is easier for the manufacturer to reuse working components of an old device than for a user. Of course, the ideal thing is retrofitability, which you say is not possible - with the current technology, maybe in the future…

Swapping is making things easier. Not everyone has the means to resell his own phone. There could be restrictions - no swapping of devices before a certain age. And there really is such restriction in FP as they launch a product every 3-4 years or so.

Actually, many people keep their phone while its working properly, not only FP users. They save money that way. The circular economy is actually a very old thing, even if people didn’t have much environmental consciousness… And this is personally what I have always done, regardless of the brand of my phone.

The problem when you try to do this while keeping with FP or Shiftphone is that you have to assume staying for 2 months without a smartphone which is something most people cannot accept nowadays, because in most places you can’t just go to a shop right away and buy a new FP or Shiftphone (actually this is why I couldn’t give an opportunity to the latter).

And then again the device should be reliable and durable. I see this as more important than modularity and this is why I want to understand why this movement puts modularity as the top priority - is it really sustainability or also tech geekiness?

As with any sustainable industrial product, price will always be key, and I think you shouldn’t blame the user. When I say price I mean price for the same performance, durability, etc. If you can’t make it cheaper or better, at least make it more reliable, durable and easy to repair when this is needed.

When I had a problem with my FP2 I had the impression the service really didn’t know what was going on, so they don’t really know how their product works. They basically asked me to disassemble and assemble it again, and it didn’t work.

You are right in that such a product was not fit for a wider market. So I really hope FP3 is not like FP2 for those of you who decided to stick with it.

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  • You can not go to a shop and buy a Shiftphone or Fairphone, because they are starting and meaning to change the industry. This is hardly done by doing it like all the others do it.
  • Modularity is a means for sustainability by repairability. Achieving reliability with modularity is the hard thing to do. And when it is done by a small company instead of global player, the means for testing big stile are limited. That’s why the FP2 with it’s flaws by design entered the market. My bet would be, that the testing fell short of the real stress that the phone was put through in reality.
  • Service has to cover all those things. A new product, with a revolutionary design, a demanding community with lots of ideas and many new problems occuring all the time. Then they made the mistake of outsourcing support line; and they brought it back in house only this year (May if I recall correct; there is a blogpost to this).

To me it seems, that you sometimes put the cart before the horse.
You can not buy a revolutionary new product by a small startup and expect everything to work as flawless and perfect as it does with global players that are on the market for decades. And even those companies don’t work perfect. Just do some searching on the internet to find those reports. The difference is the size of the company, and portfolio and purse of those companies.
Just give it some time. The FP3 should be a kind of turning point. But we’ll see, if that really happens.

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Many thanks to make and BertG. The FP2 was undoubted flawed in many points, and if you followed the forum and bug tracker (example:
https://bugtracker.fairphone.com/project/fairphone-android-7/issue/36) it should become clear that this was not just a “personally experience” as ElKrasso describes it.

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I sold my working FP2 with accessories for 170 EUR. I see them going for ~150-200 EUR. If it were broken, I would have sold (for much less, perhaps in parts) and/or recycled it.

If you buy a FP3, you can recycle your FP2 with a 40 EUR cashback, and a non-Fairphone smartphone for a 20 EUR cashback.

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This is a software regression in the official firmware. These can be fixed.

The FP2 has a number of hardware issues which occur relatively common enough to consider them hardware flaws. Fixing these is much more difficult.

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Agree, but not having a working WIFI for almost 1 year doesn’t seem to me that they are eager to fix software regressions in a way one would expect.

And don’t get me wrong. The philosophy and sustainability behind Fairphone is great. And I can see and do appreciate all the great work. But in the end, they are also selling a product. And to be really honest, I do not know many “happy” FP1 or FP2 customers in my circle of friends. Is it just a coincidence? I doubt it. I think Fairphone should care more about customers and work on their products. I mean I would not buy a fairtrade banana, when the banana is not like a regular banana.

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I had the same issues as you (very poor battery live, performance of the phone not good anymore, wifi bugs, frequent crashes of apps, very bad camera quality) - timho hey really should have postponed or even cancelled the update to android 7. Instead of buying a new fairphone I think I’ll buy a used Samsung Galaxy S8. My wife already has a used galaxy S6 and it is just soo much better as my FP2 - and she never had to replace any parts of it unlike me. From a waste reduction perspective I’d assume that a used phone is even better as a new fairphone 3.

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I moved your post here because it doesn’t contribute to the question at hand in the Fairphone 3 topic, whereas this topic here seems much more fitting.

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I’ve worked doing humanitarian work in conflict zones in Africa in places where the minerals (coltan+++) where part -if not just the source- of the problem and I’ve witnessed the suffering it provoked. I am very much sensitized about the ecological problem that electronics and its overconsumptions represent (especially with all the programmed obsolescence thing). I am also very much aware of how the international labor division harms some socities so rich countries can have cheap products while others have to work on almost slave-like conditions. For all those reasons I felt in love with the Fairphone project initially (I crowdfunded the FP1 and patiently waited for the FP2 once my FP1 was getting old enough). Finally, when this modular idea came out it was like the full dream coming true. Even though the more than 500€ looked lika a bit expensive for a phone I though that with all the moduls thing I was going to have mobile phone for at least 5-6 years… so you are paying for a phone of some acceptable specs, that you could just replace moduls when they start failing, but mainly for the whole philosophy behing, isn’t it? But, at least, you should get a working phone that will last… especially if, as many people does, you rely on it for your professional activities.
So I finally got my FP2… and some time -months- after it started failing… the screen, the apps, almost everything. After some ping-pongs and having to send it for repair TWICE to France (with all the inconveniences that it represents about having to set-up again all the phone and the back-up one and so on) I got the screen replaced and something done with the software and it worked for some time on a decent manner (a few weeks). During the first repairs, the support guy admitted that the FP2 came with some design/production issues… something about a problem with the contact of the screen provoked some general performance issues (besides the obvious display ones). Some time after that repair, it started failing again. Same issues: screen doing weird things, the phone not responding to even the turn-on button. Apps crashing. Etc, etc. After contacting the support again the same advices were given: “remove apps to see if its one of them, do the factory reset… but if everything fails, the warranty being expired we could just offer to take your FP2 for 40€ if you decide to purchase the FP3”. Hahahahah. And that’s how my love story with FP finishes. I love the idea, the concept, the philosphy behind it but I still need a phone and I am not rich enough as to be expending every couple of years more than 400-500€ in mobile phones.

Up to this day, when someone would ask me about Fairphone I would be a militant of it. Not anymore. From now on I will get a proper working phone (a cheaper one, of course) and give up with FP. If someone asks about it I will literally say: “the issue with the minerals and with the electronic waste, and with the working conditions of people producing mobile phones is very concerning… something needs to be done and Fairphone is trying to do something about it. But their products are not good enough and are very expensive. So if you just care about the principles and all those things but you don’t need to have a reliable device, you should buy a Fariphone… unless you really care about the product itself and you need a reliably performing one. If that is your case, Fairphone is not for you”.

Anyway, all the best for the Fairphone team… I hope you’ll get to a good product at a competitive price soon. Maybe one day if that is the case I will come back “to be part of the movement” without needing to be rich to do so… maybe by then I will not feel like I’ve been scammed.

Cheers

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49

I’m sorry to read about your experiences with FP and I totally understand your point. It’s very important that you share your story here, because it is a part of FP obviously. I think every feedback is important - for a person OR a company - to make improvements. And I hope that FP will improve, because this needs to be done to keep the idea working and growing.

I for my part am happy with my FP 3 so far and curious where it will take me.

Take care!

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Sad story indeed. The problem with the FP2 was that it was full of design flaws (quickly dying microphone, screen not well attached because of the easy-removable system, way too small battery, and as you mentioned, a lot of crashes and overheating issues…). Most of these flaws due to the fact Fairphone was designing a modular phone for the first time.

They had to keep selling it until they were ready to launch a new device, if they didn’t want to sink.

As an early user of both the FP2 and FP3, I’ve noticed the FP3 to be much more stable and reliable. I took a leap of faith when FP3 came out last year, because I didn’t want to suffer an extensive use of the warranty like I did for FP2.

Thankfully Fairphone learned from their mistakes and I can only encourage you to give them another chance. It seems it’s really worth it, at least to me. It seems to me there is way less major complaints about FP3 than there were about FP2.

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:100:
One has to take into consideration, that FP is still a project as well. They just make their third phone model.
And they are doing revolutionäre things in Mord than one regard. Besides the social aspects regarding mines and factories, the transparancy and ecological developments (e.g. transportation and recycling). They have taken a way, that even Google did not dare to follow through: a modular phone. With the FP2 they took modularity to the max, making a change of the display a matter of seconds by fixing it with a snap on connection only. That was way to much. So, the FP3 has the display fixed with 13 Drews!

While @Pablo_Grinstein is totally correct regarding the FP2, the FP3 is a totally different piece of cake. The FP2 was rather for the “geek” willing to compromise on lots of things and do some tinkering ever once in a while. For sure no phone for the everyday user expecting just a working phone.
The FP3/3+ is the first model directed at the mass market. They even started it with a big media presentation.
So, @Pablo_Grinstein, while I understand your justified frustration. You can rightfully “warn” others about Fairphone (model 2), but please be honest and tell them, that they have made mich progress and learned their lessons; even if you maybe can’t expect them yet to live up to the standards of the global players.

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Thanks, guys, for your reactions.
Its good to see people that is really identified and commited with the project… I think that, as project, it’s worth it. A different thing is how and what do they learn and how the project is managed. A different story.

On the other hand, I think that part of what a project like this one should learn is about marketing and how to manage customers loyalty. If I was a partner of the company or holder of stock options I would have a different view on my experience and maybe be more tolerant and understanding. But if you produce something that you know that is EXPENSIVE and that you had design/production issues, you try to compensate it, especially when you are in front of someone that was on the boat from the very beginning… and offering 40€ in exchange for my old crappy FP2 in case I would like to spend further 400-500€ less than 2 years after (which means having spent almost 1000€ in mobile phones between 2017 and 2020!!! Madness) than they might have to take a look at the relationship they would establish with their customers. If they want to still learn something here it is: they might have maybe negotiated something with me, asked me what my expectations were instead of just sending a lady from technical support to just copy and paste a prewritten email with general instructions about what to do whan a phone fails. Luckily she didn’t ask me to try to restart it or “check if the power cable was properly connected”… :slight_smile:

Anyhow, is good to know that there is people like you supporting and defending the thing… but I am still out and still convinced about what I will tell people about this project.

Hopefully, one day in the future, once it is a consolidated project and capable of producing good stuff and dealing effectively and with honesty with people I might consider purchasing a FP again… we shall see.
Cheers.

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You had a bad experience FP2, and parted ways. Your experience is about FP2; not FP3. I’m sad to see you go. I think we all are. Its a lot of money (and time), so I can understand you don’t want to retry. I’m glad I did retry with FP3 though. Although in some regards FP2 was better (easier to take apart IMO, but the cost is worth it).

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Hi all, I supported Fairphone a lot, but I must now demonstrate my frustrations. I installed Open Android and now try to install normal Android again, because Open Android is not at all suitable for normal use. Many apps you can’t install and if I want to solve a problem, I run from one problem in another. A phone should be usable to carry out my work, not a job at itself. I hope FairPhone is going to improve the product. I did my best (because I like the initiative a lot), but I simply cannot do my work with this phone. Too much problems, too long time to solve them and too complex to find answers on the forum. Its a big mess and frustration. Sorry, but I get rid of it and give my soul and data to evil Google again with an unfair phone.

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Which apps are giving you problems?

Some apps are dependent on Google Play Services (or whatever it’s called these days), which do not come with FPOpen by default. More of an issue with the architecture of Google Android than an FP issue - but there are some tricks that can be pulled to still use Google-dependent apps, such as installing MicroG.

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21 posts were merged into an existing topic: Discussion about Fairphone as a company

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Posts were moved to another topic, as the discussion was getting off-topic.
Please remember the original intention of this topic was for people to share their experience about why they were leaving away their Fairphone. You can react to the experience of others, but we would like to friendly ask all forum members not to have discussions about Fairphone as a company nor how they should act, or about the reliability of Fairphone products in this topic.

Kindly,
The Moderators

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