Is the Fairphone a social phone?

The recycling idea is indeed a great one. I’ve not so much insight on how recycling works at fairphone, but it’s definitively the way to go. I would also like a cheaper faiphone toolkit to be assembled at home, ikea-style. Millions of perfectly functioning chips and processors are thrown away every day, it would be nice to have a reuse for that.
But again, I’m convinced that this may only work with low-end devices, you don’t want to mess with your new 500€ phone.

I think there is an interesting paradox in your argument: you want a cheap phone that everyone can buy. But want to use an OS on it that excludes everyone who is not interested or capable to learn how computers work.

Technology can be just as much a barrier as high costs are.

I have not used Replicant for a long time. But do you think that someone with only a passing interest in technology would be able to do the following within 15 min. on their new Fairphone with Replicant:

  • Connect to Google account for email.
  • Install WhatsApp, Facebook and local weather apps
  • Connect to their work Exchange server for address book and calendar sharing
  • Allow Device Management Tool from their boss

If more then one of these is no, then most users in this world are going to have a very hard time using the phone and probably not liking, or even buying it.

5 Likes

Do I understand you right? Do you really want products to become more expensive? Because this very topic started with exactly the opposite statement: the FP2 should be (much, much) cheaper!

Trying to internalize the real costs (social and/or environmental) into a product, makes it more expensive. It makes it harder for many people to buy it, but it also makes people realize what are the true costs.

4 Likes

I think in the end it will go in this direction. Some (fair, eco) things can’t be produced cheaper. If you want people to be able to afford it, higher wages is the way to go. Say, the manager does not get a bonus of a million euros, but it will be distributed to the people who really are the foundation of the success of a company. The salary of a manager will be high enough anyway

4 Likes

@Soprano You are absolutely not right. A phone, which cost 50,- EUR will never be a fair, social phone.
Phone need to be developed, planned, parts need to be produced, people need to get paid for they work. How all that could be fair, if a phone will cost 50,- EUR?

50,- EUR Smartphones are produced in huge masses in China, where the workers are very bad paid. Nobody knows where the minerals come from, and software will definitively be NOT FREE. It will be Android.

There is no 100% Fair Smartphone with fair Open Software. Of course if it would be one - it would never costs 50,- EUR.

But Fairphone is a step in the right direction.

Of course 520,- EUR is huge amount of money, its a half of my German salary, but Fairphone can’t costs less, because otherwise it will not be fair.

You already seen - where the money go, when one FP2 is sold?

Cost breakdown of the Fairphone 2

6 Likes

Others above have also commented on software. In my opinion the Google Play Store is very social, as in “everyone has the same opportunities”. It makes huge amounts of apps available for everyone and most of them are even “for free” (not taking into account that you pay with your data). No other software makes technology so widely available and easily accessible.

PS.: I think I just signed my exfairphonication:wink:

3 Likes

It’s exactly what I wrote: .[quote=“Soprano, post:19, topic:24608”]
we miss a rock-solid, easy to use os, so far. A free os your granma can easily use.
[/quote]

Besides that, Replicant is not more or less usable than any other Android 4. The only big difference is of course the store.

It was just an example to demonstrate that something we think as an unalterable fact, may change in a short amount of time. What I would want, is not to spread the “fairness revolution” only to a restricted elite who can afford it. I understand all of your criticism but the fact is: until we’ll give a chance to everybody to be fair, we’ll miss the final goal.

I agree that 50€ is probably impossible (probably. Maybe by recycling ?). Still, it’s the price the phone should (theoretically) cost to reach the masses. Do you prefer to have necessities produced fairly, or luxuries ? Both would be the best of course, but what would you chose, the 50K fairphones (luxury) sold in Europe or the billions of cheap phones (necessity) sold in India ?

And that’s an opportunity Fairphone missed. How cool would have been a 100% free OS in the Fairphone ? Instead, we still have to deal with proprietary blobs which we don’t know how they are potentially used.

Without doubts.[quote=“explit, post:25, topic:24608”]
You already seen - where the money go, when one FP2 is sold?
[/quote]
I’ve seen, and that’s the reason why I would have targeted a less high end device.

2 Likes

I couldn’t be more of the opposite opinion lol
I would say the google store applies more to a dictatorial / despotic model than a social one. But maybe we can skip this branch of the thread for now :smile:

2 Likes

I would like if both would be produced fairly.

Fairphone’s goal is not to be the only one who produces “fair” phones. Fairphone wants to be a “good practice” example for the phone industry. So Fairphone produces for those who can afford to pay more. Other manufacturers should adopt that “good practice”. And if all other manufacturers do this “good practice”, every smartphone would be a “fair phone” and (nearly) everyone could afford it.

5 Likes

Here i must agree with you, @Soprano . A completely FOSS Smartphone would be awesome, but i think it is not possible. The binary blobs you talk about are mostly the Firmware-Files for the
GSM/UMTS/LTE-Modem.

As far as i know, there are only a couple of phones which have completely free Modem stack. OpenMoko GTA04 as i know. The very open Nokia N900 Smartphone has also closed source parts (Nokia MCU). Maybe Neo900 will be complete FOSS, but it would also cost more than 500,- EUR.
Also your Samsung Galaxy SIII has closed source parts. CyanogenMod or AOSP or Replicant don’t touch this firmware regions as i know, so the modem can work with the different Android flavours.

The Problem when manufacturing Hardware in 21st century is is the amount of units produced.
Fairphone 2 could be much cheaper if it would be produced in larger batches.
But Fairphone can’t produce 1.000.000 FP2s if they know that only 100.000 will be sold. That makes the FP2 more expensive.

I don’t really think, FP2 is a Luxus-Device.
I had Nokia N900, Nokia N9, Jolla 1 and now Fairphone 2.
Noki N900 costs 550,- EUR when i bought it, Nokia N9 costs 480 EUR, Jolla 1 costs 100+299 EUR = 399 EUR, FP2 costs 520,- EUR.

Son all my Phones since 2009 had the same price - but with every phone i got better Hardware for the same money.

Nokia N900 = 256MB RAM
Nokia N9 = 512 MB RAM
Jolla 1 = 1GB RAM
FP2 = 2GB RAM

I really don’t want to go back to the previous model, because 1GB RAM is not enough anymore, if you are Linux Power User (btw. i use SailfishOS on the FP2) It is 70% FOSS
Not complete FOSS, but it the most open platform, which i can get, when i wont to have a LinuxOS.
Replicant is good, but it is still Android. It uses only Linux Kernel - for me it’s no alternative to SailfishOS, even it is more open…

But i can talk only for myself.

I bought FP2 because i needed a more powerful Upgrade for my Jolla 1. And Jolla C / Intex is to low-budget (and low-spec) for me.

3 Likes

It’s an interesting comment, but most of it is off-topic, in my opinion. Should we split the topic or do you maybe have suggestions where I can move your post to a similar discussion?

1 Like

I think that would be also a question for those “low-budget” devices for developing countries: Are the users happy with their devices for a long time? Or are they annoyed because the device is “so slow” and “has so few memory”?

2 Likes

You are right, it’s partly off-topic.
From my side, that is not needed to split the tread. Just want to say that there is no free, fair, social phone with FOSS Software and 50,- EUR Price tag.

3 Likes

Are you sure about that? I never looked into it, but some years ago I looked into the Apple App Store. To be able to put your developed app into the store you had to pay a monthly fee, which is not affordable for small time developers who create apps that won’t be bought by millions of people.
Also we already established our ideological differences concerning the word “free”.

Maybe not so widely available - since most people use Google on their phone - but F-Droid makes apps much easier available. You can use their app without having to create an account and even access the whole repository from their website without the app. And all the apps are truly free.
Also developers don’t have to pay a fee or agree to incorporate any google malware into their apps - on the contrary.

Such OSes exist. But not on smartphones. Why do you want to make smartphones available for everybody if even the producers of the fairest smartphone in the world keep saying that a phone that already exists is always a better choice for the world than a new Fairphone. There are so many valuable and unfair materials even in the Fairphone. So the fewer smartphones there are in the world the better!

That chance can’t be magically given by fairphone to everybody. They are doing lots to improve things on many ends, but can’t abolish income inequality in the whole world over night.
Selling phones for 50€ in the world as it is right now they would have to go against everything they stand for and it wouldn’t change the world for the better.

Also did you ever think that 50€ is still about 2 months of income for some people?

I think this whole discussion is mute, as the “social” you are talking about can’t be accomplished in short term - and in long term Fairphone is doing exactly the right thing to accomplish it: Pay fair wages.

7 Likes

Oh yes, you are so social buying phones for 100€ (how much goes to workers from there?) and replacing it every 2 years (more trash for the world).
I’ve had one mobile phone in my life for 8 years, it cost me about 500€. I’ve met people buying three phones of about 200€ each on that time frame, with less money than me.
There’s a lot of conformism, externality ignorance and consumer immediate satisfaction out there too.

6 Likes