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How much would you pay for an official Sailfish OS? (was: Would you accept ethical stores as part of the user interface of Sailfish OS on FP2?)

In my mind it is absolutely important to be able to test the OS before you’re asked to decide whether you want to buy it or not. I could imagine that it might be a big hurdle for interested people if they had to make that decision before the installation, i.e., before knowing if they like the OS or not.

On the other hand, the amount of Fairphoners willing to pay for an ad-free OS might be a bit higher than usual, as the awareness of data privacy and the desire to be in control over your device are higher, in general. Personally, I second what everyone else has said, I would be willing to pay something like 20 Euros or so, while an ad-loaded version would definitely be a no-go for me.

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A bit late here, but I have a few thoughts to add. The models suggested above all sound fair. I’d put ny vote on free without ads for a week or two, then ad sponsored until you pay for a license to remove the ads permanently. I am also one of those users that have been waiting for sailfish to buy a fairphone 2, so I hope for the seperate path of buying phone with sailfish installed and payed for from the box.

If I payed for a license seperately, I wouldn’t see a problem with a higher price than suggested. 50 euros would not have me hesitating. If it included updates for the devices full life that’s not a bad deal.

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I also would pay for the license stuff.
The best way would be to pay for each license separately, but i this would complicate the handling.
I need the exchange connectivity (for business cases) but did not need here or android stuff.
Otherwise i would also pay onetime charge of 50 € for all licenses together.
The split of license fee would allow to add more licensed software (if necessary) for some one who need it without replace the ‘old’ billing model.
To the test installation i think it should be easy to build a license free supported version (this could be used also for a test installation) and the above described license model.
A time limited license model would complicate the handling.
I also by conform that any kind of ‘must use stores/partner spaces’ is a ‘no go’ for me.
This is one of the big reasons to switch from google android an apple iphone to SailfishOS.
On this OS i must not use any application from jolla (without the OS part ;-)).

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Thanks for asking in the forum, @sfossimo. I’m also very interested in having Sailfish OS with Android-App support. At the moment I use the original FP2-OS and will only switch if Sailfish OS is officially supported with all features (like Dual-SIM etc.).

1 - Concerning your first point: I’d also be a little sceptical about the integration of online shops in the user interface. I don’t know how this commercial feature is used in current Sailfish-Devices, but being placed to prominent without the possibility to be removed (let’s say: from the Homescreen) would be to annoying. So, I have to agree with the other comments.

2 - Nevertheless: if you wanted to do such cooperations with online stores and only preinstall their shopping apps, I guess the ethical-shop-scene is too fragmented in Europe. You need different ones for different countries. I could only speak for Germany. For me, the only “bigger” stores with an ethical/ fairtrade approach that come to mind are:

https://www.avocadostore.de/ - a joint marketplace for ethical fashion.
http://www.memo.de/ http://www.memolife.de/ - everyday products and especially office supplies
https://www.waschbaer.de/ - quite similar to memo, less office focus though
http://www.manufactum.de/ - long enduring products, focus hardware

3 - As I said: I would prefer not to have ads but pay some amount for an official version. 20€ would be perfectly fine with me, the 50€ mentioned by @jaywalk sounded rather high when I read that. Yet, on second thought it probably depends on what you get for that: for the 3rd party parts about 20€ sound reasonable. But on top of that I would love to have some kind of guarantee of constant updates and further development of the OS - so I would pay more for that. I think it’s crucial, that Sailfish OS for FP2 will be up-to-date for at least those 5 years that FP aims to have the phones used (and I also intend to use my phone that long).

4 - Well, there is always the possibility of crowdfunding, of course. I think the joint efforts of Jolla and Faiphone match together perfectly. For this joint venture I would think that there should be organisations with similar values that might be convinced to help, be it with some sort of technical support or maybe even with financing.

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I rather ment 20€ for an unlimited version, not “per year”. I would think twice before paying more than 50€. I am convinced that you’d have a higher income when having a lower price because less people would pay a price like that. It’s nothing like “hey, let’s buy it spontaniously”. For that, 50€ is definitely too high…

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Thanks for all your comments! The discussion has been valuable for my idea, and the WeAreFairphone community (not too familiar to me yet) seems to show some common values. To wrap things up:

  • In general, the idea of having any ad-like content seems to be quite unwanted among the users here, even if that would make the operating system free
  • The suggestions on prize of the commercial parts have been 10-50€ for the services up to 50€ including constant updates for the os
  • Opinion on testing before buying has gathered a lot of likes and support

From a business point of view, any solution bringing income either directly or over time are probably ok for all the parties, and reasonable prize when having no ads seems to be accepted by this community. I was about to suggest an idea with some ethical store partnerships for Jolla and a free os for FP2 users via those, but now it seems I should suggest an idea of a prize for delivering an os with no advertisement. Listening to all of you, let’s see what I’ll end up with :slight_smile:

About the prize, let’s wrap up a suggestion for that then. I’m thinking about:

  • Having all the Sailfish OS commercial parts packed in
  • Having official customer support via Fairphone
  • Having a quarantee of no ads added to the user interface over time
  • Having constant updates from Jolla for their OS for the expected lifespan of FP2 (5 years), which would mean about 40 system updates following the past average gap between releases

Now what would the above be worth, including one month free testing period with the full experience?

  • Subscription fee between 5-9€ / year
  • Subscription fee between 10-19€ / year
  • Subscription fee between 20-39€ / year
  • Subscritpion fee between 40-59€ / year
  • One time prize between 20-39€
  • One time prize between 40-59€
  • One time prize between 60-79€
  • One time prize between 80-99€

0 voters

Note: This poll is only for this discussion and maybe to find a common understanding around the prize. This is not the end of the discussion here, let’s try to find one fair prize to discuss further on

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@sfossimo You should reference this poll in your first post (e.g. edit it and put a link to the poll there)! :slight_smile:

Regarding the following:

This would kind of contradict the idea of Fairphone, namely not only providing updates until the end of the expected lifespan of a phone, but also afterwards, when there is still a considerable amount of working phones out there.

So IMO the updates should not be limited to some expected lifespan, but to the number of active phones (e.g. no updates any more, when user base drops below X users).

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Thanks for the tip @Stefan, a link added now. I guess the user base might be even one, as those updates should be developed anyway for all the Sailfish OS devices in the future, so maybe not so important to edit.
And thanks @goody, the poll was reposted with new options after only 2 votes and your valuable comments

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It’s a bit a pity one can only make one vote. I could imagine both, a subscription or a one time price. :slight_smile:

Usually I hate subscription concepts for software, because if I pay for it, I want to own it.
However, with an OS I see it a bit different, since I might also want to change it again :slight_smile:

Anyhow, I’m curious already where this going to. Looking forward to see the results.

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Me too, indeed. After enough of votes, we could for example calculate the average and count an approximate of how many customers would be needed for the official support to reach a break-even-point. But we’d need quite a lot of votes for a reliable approximation, and maybe some help from the parties in those calculations too. Anyway, even with a lower vote count it’ll give some directions to move on with the ideas.

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I’m pushing this up. We need more votes for a reliable overview. Please vote here!

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I would also be happy to pay for Sailfish OS including licensed components for FP2. 20-50€ as a one-time charge would be fine for me as an initial guess. Perhaps it might be worth considering making the licensed components available as an “upgrade”, or purchase-able apps. Whichever way it’s implemented, the implementation & prices should ensure this is sustainable for all the parties involved (especially Jolla).

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I’m not really interested in Sailfish OS for the Fairphone, but since you asked for store recommendations, I’d like to mention Ecosto in Finland (ecosto.fi).

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Hi everyone,
It’s great to see this kind of conversation.
I would like to share some thoughts of mine.

Sure. I would pay for the sailfish in the FP2 if:

  • Fairphone contributes and shares partially the cost with me as a customer. At the moment I don’t have a Fairphone. And it will be interesting for me only if it runs the complete sailfish OS.
  • Jolla compromises providing updates for the OS, but also to take care of the code from the community port. If I’m paying for it. I want that all the hardware can be used as expected. And if there is a problem I want to get support from either Fairphone or Jolla.

Jolla and Fairphone should think about the long term and contribute to each other. I think it’s a great opportunity for all parties.
Fairphone becomes not only a great third party OS (I mean no android or IOS) but also the whole community and customers of Jolla.
For Jolla it’s a great opportunity to get their OS in a new Hardware. The Jolla-phone is three years old which is not sold anymore, there are just a few tablets and the new project for India could not be reached by customers in Europe.

PS: I apologize for my rusty English.

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I disagree completely. This would mean Fairphone would spend money of people who bought their phone for completely different reasons (like those in the Fairphone Roadmap) on a completely new kind of project. If Fairphone wanted to spend money on this, it should have been clear when I payed for my FP2.

I have all respect for these kind of projects, but I’m not interested in them. I got a Fairphone because of the conflict minerals and worker conditions. If the company would now start spending its money on projects in a whole different field of interest, this would be quite disappointing for me. Because I’m convinced there is more than enough work to do / money to spend on these two first subjects.

If you want Jolla on your phone, I can only encourage you to support them. But don’t ask to spend my money too :wink:

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I’m sorry that you miss understood me. I’m not expecting that Fairphone spends money on Jolla. Neither that they pay for licences for devices that are already sold. Or that they take money from their “fair project” for fancy software.
What I meant is: Fairphone as company has also a profit margin (I think it is currently 10€ for each phone). They could invest a part of their profit margin that they will become when I buy them a phone with a Sailfish OS from fabric. I repeat invest. From my point of view: They could win by selling more devices that otherwise they would not sell. You can see it as a marketing strategy.

Intentionally I didn’t say any numbers. If Fairphone recognizes that they will also profit from having this OS. And not only me, but also they support this project. It shows me their interest to work on the long term and gives me as customer some security that the project will be kept on.

But, as I said before is just my point of view. I have no desire to provoke anyone here :slight_smile:

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I think of a subscription model as most reliable and sustainable. It’s an incentive for the developer to keep the software updated to keep those subscriptions active

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Mathematical averages after 50 votes: 16€ / year subscription, or 32€ one time fee. In my opinion this also looks like a nice compromise for all parties to think about for an ad free, privacy oriented system on a fair device. What do you think?

Based on some heavy assumptions (!) for running expenses (customer support, further development, investments to set things up and reasonable profits) I’d guess that one time fee of 32€ would require 50-60k new customers, and 16€ yearly subscription fee would require 30-34k new customers. Offering both options, maybe 40-45k then.

Do you think sales like that could be reached already during the first year with only marketing along other options, price of the phone being either 557€ or 525€+16€/y?

My opinion: Sounds pretty expensive when one hears it for the first time, but after thinking some further that is not bad price at all. Breaking the whole price (device + OS), assuming five years of usability and additional 200€ into spare/upgrade parts, the one time price suggested would make all together 12€/month. Any time if you ask me! Let’s hear it from you then?

Please note: These prices and assumptions are for this discussion only, to be used as a base for opinions. They are not to be used as suggestions for any party. I’m merely interested on how the Fairphone community feels about this before suggesting anything to Sailfish OS community, as was the original idea of this thread

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Fairphone wants to sell 140.000 phones per year, so your estimation would make 20-40% of all phones sold this year. It seems like a lot to me. On the other hand there is a bunch of people that have stated that they will only buy a FP2 if it has Sailfish OS on it. The existing Sailfish OS community are potential buyers of the FP2 too.

Can you make an estimation on how many Sailfish OS users are out there, and how many of them have a phone (Jolla?) older than 2 years?

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