I think this is representative on how much the usual people of that forum want outsiders that don’t agree with them to feel unwelcome
"Disagreeing on wording and trying to convince someone to change his/her wording is called discussion "
I wish it has been like that. I felt as if some regulars of the forum felt on me. I have been accused of so many things, and I had to re-state what I wanted to say so many times. I had to flag some posts, and get in touch with moderators regarding some people (user, power user and moderator) which I think were unfair to me. The discussion that followed with the moderators (unfortunately privately) shown me that I was right. The fact that the title is kept until now is not thanks to the nice environment of that forum, but thanks to my determination and the help of few others.
This post talks about alternative to court case that I found doing search on the net.
I found the ODR particularly interesting as it seams to be very much fit for cases discusses here (or No sound 50+% of the time in calls, until reboot)
None of the replies on that thread discuss about such issues. They mostly try to make me change the title.
It depends if someone just does not agree/share others opinions but respects them, or if someone says “If you choose to be offended, go ahead. I regret nothing.” and leans back, which, in my opinion, is a very provocative way to express disrespect to the other person…
Well, it all depends on the context.
The current thread has a loaded context, to not get back into details.
Plus telling "If you choose to be offended, go ahead. I regret nothing.” is provocative, which is fine. But I do not think it expresses disrespect. Because it does not attack the person directly, but tries to express a point of view. One could says that it is trying to put intention into someone else’s, which is acceptable as long as it is not defamatory. Which it isn’t now because there is no confusion about who writes what.
On the other hand, the way I got bullied for the title of my thread, the refusal to discuss the problems I brought up (many people being unsatisfied about the support, what to do as a single individual against a company, the general cool-washing of Fairphone which leads to double language), and the accusation I was the target of (trying to build me a “reputation”, insinuating I am trying the take advantage of a situation I am a victim of, knee-jerking my posts), is clearly a lack of respect.
Maybe you should change your post title in “how bad are people in this forum” since it seems you focus much more on that than on what made you create this thread : recruit people to sue Fairphone for the reason you explained.
Edit : I know it is not very constructive. If Bas_tien wants to say something useful and not repeat always the same things, it would be make me in a more comprehensive mood. For example, it would be much more interesting to give a follow-up of where he is in his complaint.
It’s taken quite long, but Fairphone has explained why the support has been so slow lately: Why is nobody getting back to me? - #57 by rae
In his case the problem is not the slow support but the fact Fairphone considers creating a thread in this forum is not opening a ticket at the support whereas Bas_tien argues it is. So he wants to sue Fairphone to get his money back.
It certainly does, because the (unnecessary) words “I regret nothing” tell me that this person is not willing to find a solution for all parties involved, so I do not care anymore about the matter itself and just leave her/him alone. Period.
So, despite my hopeful reports that it may be working for me, alas it doesn’t.
Just a recap of my support ticket history:
Request logged December 02, 2020 15:11
Replied from FP December 07, 2020 10:44 saying “oh, we’re so busy, but we have received your issue, just so you know”
Update from FP December 16, 2020 16:06 “thanks for your patience, here’s an enormous list of things you could try to resolve it”
Me posting December 21, 2020 11:06 “I’ve tried a few things, but nothing worked”
Reply from FP December 29, 2020 09:49 “Can you run a few ##66## tests are see the results”
Me replying December 29, 2020 13:16 “Tried all that, tests PASS after a restart. I don’t want to factory reset, as that is extremely inconvenient”
Reply from FP January 04, 2021 12:15 “Blah blah blah, inconvenient, blah blah, doing our best, blah blah blah will be in touch”
Me replying January 05, 2021 12:03: “Fair enough, I work in tech, I know things can be complicated. If you want me to help out testing let me know.” I tried one time, and it seemed to work, so fingers crossed.
FP replies Today at 15:13 (which is March 1st, 2021) I need to add the year here, just to be sure.
Their reply is “Great, it’s all working, so I will close this ticket”
I quickly replied saying “I’m afraid not,” and linked to this forum topic
You provide FP with a link to this topic about dishonesty, not your problem ~ which you say you resolved on Jan 5th
So are you trying to say FP are dishonest as 8 weeks after you said you fixed it they said
I am unclear as to what you are trying to say ??
TL;DR “I thought creating a thread in a community forum poses as official support; it wasn’t”. If you believe you are in the right, you should go to small claims court. Since you appear to be in The Netherlands, as does Fairphone, you don’t need europa.eu/* you need to consult/apply Dutch law instead.
I’m considering filling that form.
Not sure why you link huurcommissie.nl. Might as well link to Tros Radar, Opgelicht?!, Consumentenbond, Juridisch Loket, rechtsbijstandverzekering, …
All the ‘join me in my fight of injustice’ is just noise. Look at Max Schrems.
I do suggest you realize you’re dealing with a very small company. If you still want to go ahead, shoot. Of course, on a community forum hosted by the company in question you meet resistance and criticism. What else did you expect?
I’m not sure of what criticism you are referring to but a) criticism is essential to understand and b) I don’t care who hosts the domain name or who runs the server ~ the forum is for opinions on how to help those users who ask. Without criticism, asking questions and challenging opinions help it would grind to a halt.
Resistance, to what? Alternate view ??
Resistance in the abstract sense of the word…
The point is that on a community forum hosted by a company there is an element of influence. Its not always opaque or apparent, it might even be simply/mostly a perception.
Which is why it is better to separate a community forum from a company structure, even if well intended, at the very least it will remove the perception.
As of now, here’s a prime example where it matters (cause you won’t find it relevant until it suddenly is ) the fact the forum is administrated by Fairphone employees clouds it further.
From a legal structure, the forum can be owned by an entity called ‘Friends of Fairphone’, with exactly the same people and a redirect from forum.fairphone.com to such website. It would make a stronger legal defense.
I think the forum, although hosted by Fairphone is administered by users not employees.
I’m not sure an independent party wants to foot the bill for hosting this forum without monetary input (adds, begging)
Specifically have you come across a Fairphone employee that has administered the forum, I say administered in the sense of vetting the posts, not hosting.
Fairphone is doing the technical administration.
“Friends of Fairphone” would really have to be best buddies, as running a forum is not just time consuming, but costing real money as well. And - to be honest - I would not be very willing to invest my money besides my time to keep this forum up and running. And every change in moderators/admins/members could/would have an impact on funding.
Yet, I do agree, that measures could be taken to make the independence of this forum from Fairphone more obvious. But such things have to be well-thought-out.
From my own experience, I only can assure anyone, that I haven’t found any sign of Fairphone influencing the moderation of this forum or doing moderation themselves.
There is no such thing like censoring or “praising advertisements”.
But - obviously - this forum is managed by people, that (at least) have generally fallen for the concept of Fairphone; even if they critizice the company for one thing or the other. (Well, that’s at least my perception.)
This community is moderated by members. The technical system administration is done by Fairphone, and it is hosted on *.fairphone.com. Employees are visible via a tag… (and I’m not a Dutch lawyer)
It (Vrienden van X) is a specific, proven Dutch legalese construction, meant to separate legal entities. They could receive a donation by Fairphone (and community members) to keep it up.
One could even democratize the leadership, like the Maemo community has (I’m not so sure about that structure TBH…).
I agree I also never came across such meddling, though there are some benefits (AFAIK not allowed to talk specific due to embargo?). In the end, our opinions don’t matter [to the reader such as TS], as we will come across as partisan given our (past) role; it is about perception, after all.
Yes. For example, if vested in a product, a sunk cost fallacy could apply. An attachment to a movement could also develop a (too) rose tinted view of reality ie. a perception.
We also don’t want to scare criticism away to other communities such as Reddit. Because these are more like a gateway from popular communities to ours, and we don’t want such gateways filled with negativity.
What I’m trying to say is that if I had put up a few hundred quid more, and got myself a working phone from a company that can sort out their shit, I would have saved myself a lot of grief and headspace which from my point of view is worth more than that few hundred quid. Instead, I have had 7 months of an essential tool in my life, which has been malfunctioning, and has taken up more attention in my daily routine than it deserves. Just the very fact that I am posting some stupid reply to a long lasting thread is an indication of that. We have all wasted tremendous amounts of headspace and time, due to a bug that was there, because a few people couldn’t be bothered to have a proper quality control in place.
I’m all for the concept of FP, and I have one, because I believe in the idea. In fact, I have the badge of being one of the first 10,000 who got FP1 (which totally bailed on me, as did FP2) Doing it badly works against the idea and not in favour of it. After bad experiences with FP1 and 2, I stepped aside and went SG7. I decided to come back for FP3+ and had a terrible experience. That’s not the kind of track record that FP should have. I’ve had all three and none of them worked as they should have.
If you want to do something like FP, you either do it right, or you don’t do it. Basically, doing it badly plays into the hands of the bad guys, “look, those hippies can’t pull it off, you need real business men to sort stuff out properly”
I really buy into the idea of FP and have the history to show it. With a multi million turnover, they should be able to do better.
I do not own a FP3+, but a FP2. Various bugs and issues have kept me away from buying and recommending an FP3+, and using the FP2 as a spare phone so far. But the latest ROM update looks promising. I will keep an eye on how things develop…
I do not work in customer support, and I think no one should because it is not worth it dealing with people’s complaints, but that’s just me.