It’s quite more complex ben. Many have been rising the issue that the business models of GAFAs and the way users accepted to engage in totally submissive relationships have massive negative effects on many social and economic dimensions, on a scale never seen before. Evidence has been accumulating very fast, I’ll just cite a few press articles, academic studies have also been popping out everywhere around the globe:
Clearly change will have to be imposed by those who are aware of this calamitous situation, societies and economies can’t be left at the merci of the few ultra-powerful, ultra-influential and ultra-rich operating under an extremist ideological agenda.
The European Union is the only one that can create a new socially beneficial ecosystem for the Internet. It should start by treating the Internet again as the public infrastructure it is, by obliging all governments and businesses operating in the region to offer at least one European framework alternative, preferably open sourced and under European control. In particular, we need a non-corporation app depository and a non-corporation instant messaging framework. It’s really a question of European security and privacy, it’s absurd how we now utterly depend on G##gle, A##le or Faceb##k for banking, traffic info, government services, or public alerts.
This can’t go on, change will happen, if not in an organized and rational way, haphazardly during a terrible military, political or economic crisis.
I’ve meant to post something like this for a very long time again and again but then didn’t find it worth the effort to pick up that fight. But now that you wrote it: amen to all!
If I remember correctly it started with terms like “windoze” or “nutscrape” (Netscape Navigator for those not old enough to remember) or “internet exploder”. I’m really sick of those derogative terms. Yet, still after over 20 years people don’t find anything better to do than keep on screaming “don’t take me serious!”. It’s NOT helping free software or projects focussing on privacy. It’s creating a toxic environment.
Yes, paying for a product (including software) is fine although we should take into account not everyone can afford. Different people in the world have different amounts of money to save and spend.
Mer is FOSS, but SailfishOS is not (only partly). I’d happily pay 50 EUR for a SailfishOS license provided I like the OS (haven’t tried Maemo since 5.x). I’d rather have a (partly) proprietary OS than one which does tracking. And besides that, I believe a gesture-based OS [although it has a learning curve] is the right way forward. However, having experienced the dark '90s with Microsoft I also want to avoid vendor lock-in, and I want backwards compatibility (which we pay for via the license).
and, if they really must, offer the ‘old’ and ethically totally wrong option as a secondary choice for customers who are just too stubborn (or worse ).
Or maybe you are stubborn. Can we please stop insulting people or suggesting they are stupid just because they make different choices in their life? Thank you!
On the one hand, you are right, calling somebody stupid does not enhance the discussion. But on the other hand its not that clear as you possibly think that you are on the morally correct side.
First he said “stubborn” not “stupid”. While not exactly an expression of high esteem “stubborn” is not an insult either. Its an somewhat emotional statement, that someone sticks to a behavior or opinion that I can’t understand. In addition to that he did not call anybody personally stubborn.
If, in somebodies opinion, there are serious negative and dangerous changes in the society as a whole, then this of course includes the opinion that many people are not doing the right things. And the more these severe adverse effects are visible, the more the people that still don’t change their behavior must seem “stubborn”… or “stupid”.
Yes, its still an opinion. And of course you can reject that opinion. But it’s everybodies right to take that view - even if this includes thinking of other people as stubborn or even stupid.
The same is true for “Goolag”. I really don’t like such malapropisms! And I don’t think @gcrl did help his concerns by using this. Only people who already share the same opinion will understand this in the right way. People who don’t share the opinion will not be convinced by such a word; it does not explain anything. But on the other hand using such a word might not be a joke, nor unthoughtfulness. It might be a genuine expression of the sincere and serious urgency of ones concerns. Gulag represents the worst outcome of communism. There are good reasons to warn against the outcome of what happens today.
PS: Something went wrong - this shouldn’t be a reply to @lklaus but to @ben, sorry.
I agree to most you say.
Especially, that this kind of argument does not help one’s point, as it ultimately puts the “counterpart” usually in “defense-mode”, closing down the doors for exchanging arguments.
And the postings of gcrl really are a special kind; take this for example:
I don’t know about you, but I really can understand, that ben felt insulted and that he took it personally, as it sounds rather sarcastic than serious.
I’m not sure where to post this. I tried to contact the support team via email, but the captcha thingy won’t let me submit the form. I came here after watching VPRO documentaries about Doughnut Economic and your own documentaries on that YT channel as well. I’m concerned about the progress of Fairphone 3 Open Source version. I want to buy the FP3, but I don’t trust Google, I’ve seen there is LOS build for FP2, is it possible for you to release the source code for the FP3 so that there will be LOS build for the FP3 too? I understand that you’re currently looking at the possibility, but do you have an ETA for this? I always love to support open source projects, however these Android OSes are cancer that always made me think twice. If you have open phone, easily self-repairable & sustainable business chain, I think you are the best in the market today and I believe you’ll be always grow because no one is doing this kind of business, maybe you can compete with Librem 5 by Purism but I don’t know about their business model/chain.
Have you read through this thread already?
This is a user-forum, that is managed by the community.
There is nothing officially Fairphone-business about it.
FP employees only drop by ever once in a while and right now I would guess, they are busy answering press and support questions and rolling out the FP3.
But if you follow this discussion, you might - in time - get the answer you are looking for.
To sum it up, currently there is no Fairphone Open OS or Lineage for the FP3, but in the past, Fairphone was very open to such ideas and there probably will be. I suggest you either check the forum from time to time or subscribe to the Fairphone newsletter to stay informed.
Well, judging from the title of your thread, merging it with this one looks like a good idea!
As to your question about an open OS for FP3 : when one looks at all the work that was done on FP2 in that regard, wether by FP (FPOS) or the community (LOS, Sailfish, UB, /e/, listed here #oslist ), one can assume there will almost certainly be alternatives to a Google services powered Android for an FP3 wich they plan to sell in much bigger numbers. Simple logic.
As to when : for FPOS I’d give it a few months, as FP is a small firm with probably nearly everybody focused on the rolling out of FP3 at the moment. For the community based alternatives, a bit longer as they have to put their hands on the phone and find the time to do the necessary work (which they do for free, let’s never forget it).
Thanks all! You guys rock! I’ll keep watching this project silently as I’m not a community guy. I’d like to see more projects like this which shows love to our planet + keeping our privacy secure. Wish you all good luck!
Thanks a lot, @lklaus, for this app. It’s a little cryptic, but the Play Store is out-of-bounds on my FP2 (and the Exodus app, which is available on F-Droid, only checks for Play Store apps, of which there are none on my FM2). But if one focusses on the interesting information, it gives a list of trackers for any app, in a minute. Very informative.
I was disappointed (or, you might say, previously naive) to see various Google analytics in many of my apps, plus a few names I’ve not heard yet. Interesting.
What do you mean by “mails to Privacy officers” - did you ask why they were using the trackers and what they are doing with your collected data?
Hey, I’m amazed how this strategy is a non-topic everwhere. You are so right; the threat to privacy and free speech are so obvious; the solution is so simple* – and yet, nobody talks of it.
Thanks for making this point!
* Simple in technical terms - create a foundation, organize a hackathon, get it out. I figure there will be many developers in Europe who are willing to spend some (paid) time on such a project. It will be NOT simple in business terms - get users back from FAAMG (new acronym I just learned
But there will have to be provisions to prevent that this foundation is used by the police or secret service; because (I would bet on it) they for sure would like to get as much information as possible (same like FAAMG now).
Yes, I mailed the “Datenschutzbeauftragten” whether he was aware of some of the more intrusive trackers that used adid and a unique id from installation. They either went investigating and said they are removing this or showed some (very) hidden option to disable it.
In the end, i also put those hosts in my adaway personal black list to just silence them… Guess it’s time to verify everything is still ok…