Fairphone’s approach to root on the Fairphone 2

[Elipsus]

But, with the open source version, are we going to be able to flash directly “by ourselves” the gapps ( for example, openGapps ) ?

[evidemment]

Thanks for that long expected input.

Still the options suck… I would like to use a rooted phone with GAPPS as I have been doing since my first smartphone. I’m not a developer so I can’t work on the issue…

As the phone is already shipped now you can release an “official inofficial” or “inofficial official” tutorial on how to root… and keep GAPPS…

For the time being I’m still hesitating to go back to my FP1 and use my old ROOTED WITH GAPPS Samsung S3 for apps like sumup. This upgrade will be easy… You have info everywhere on the net.

Still have some days to figure out what I’ll do… Send the phone back or not.

[mgkoeln]

Thanks, Joe.

I still don’t understand, though, why other Google phones seem to be easily routable while the FP2 with Google supposedly isn’t. Can anyone explain it to me as one of those semi-advanced non-developer users who enjoyed the freedom of root on the FP1 (Backups, XPosed, the early storage issue…) without knowing that much about Android’s deeper structure?

[Spielmops]

For me it would be enough if I could get a “superSU.zip” verified for this phone, so I could install it via Bootloader.

Spielmops

[jaymanu]

Thanks for this update.
As the phone can’t clearly be SHIPPED with both gapps+root, the question now shifts to : can it be UPDATED to gapps+root ?
I know that unofficial roms for android usually ask you to get the gapps in a separate file.

So, which of the 3 possibilities could be feasible ?

1/ Offer a complete ROM with gapps+root for users to download and flash (I guess that offering an aftermarket download, or shipping preinstalled could be different things)
2/ Offer a superSU like patch for the shipped ROM, with beginner install instructions. @Spielmops option
3/ Offer a GAPPS add-on for the open-source android version. Is this possible ? @elipsus option. I don’t know much about opengapps, could someone explain the difference with regular gapps ?

[ulath]

see here: FP2 Open OS - Wish: A powerful Recovery ROM (and what it has to do with freedom / root / gapps)

[Sonne]

Thanks for the post, this makes things clearer.

@anon90052001

This version is shipped to Fairphone 2 owners ready out-of-the-box. We cannot offer a version with Google services and root enabled. To get approval to ship a phone with Google services, a phone must pass compatibility tests and one requirement is that they are not shipped with root access.

May I ask why it was possible with the FP1? What has changed?

And secondly instantly [quote=“jaymanu, post:83, topic:11893”]
As the phone can’t clearly be SHIPPED with both gapps+root, the question now shifts to : can it be UPDATED to gapps+root ?
[/quote]
this question arises, especially with this [quote=“jaymanu, post:83, topic:11893”]
2/ Offer a superSU like patch for the shipped ROM, with beginner install instructions. @Spielmops option
[/quote]solution?

[EricS]

Thanks for that clarficiation Joe,

if only following would have been said earlier without all the other technical explanations, I’m sure the sentiments here and in the community would have have been different:

@anon90052001

We cannot offer a version with Google services and root enabled. To get approval to ship a phone with Google services, a phone must pass compatibility tests and one requirement is that they are not shipped with root access.

I strongly suggest that the first post would be edited to clearly indicate that not shipping with root is a legal requirement.

That being said, nothing in your statement indicates that it would be illegal to support the community by offering a manual on how to root.

As I and @spielmops suggested, why not supply a correctly signed su binary that can be written with the recovery ROM ?

@EricS

Why not supply a signed package by FP of su on a special download site so that people who want too can use it to root the phone ?

@Spielmops

For me it would be enough if I could get a “superSU.zip” verified for this phone, so I could install it via Bootloader.

Edit: @Sonne beat me to the bush

[paulakreuzer]

@Sonne

May I ask why it was possible with the FP1? What has changed?

FP1 didn’t come shipped with GAPPS, they could be installed and that was causing a lot of problems.
To avoid this trouble FP wanted to ship the second model with GAPPS preinstalled, as that is apparently what most users want.

@jaymanu

As the phone can’t clearly be SHIPPED with both gapps+root, the question now shifts to : can it be UPDATED to gapps+root ?

I don’t think FP will provide a GAPPS installer for the easily rootable FP Open OS and it certainly doesn’t sound like they will provide an official way to root the FP os w/GAPPS.
But there are other ways:
https://forum.fairphone.com/t/living-with-root-and-google-on-the-fp2/11944?u=paulakreuzer

@EricS

I strongly suggest that the first post would be edited to clearly indicate that not shipping with root is a legal requirement.

Good idea! I quoted @anon90052001’s post into @keesj’s original post so people who don’t read the whole thread can find the most important info easily. Hope they don’t mind!

[Herve5]

I read at the top that FP insists for getting our opinions. I for one own an FP1 whose pre-rooted status was just a must before even considering Android -it was my first Android. The very first app I installed was F-droid, then an open-source firewall (AFWall+). Then, I started controlling what happened on my phone.

The fact this is not available anymore (without an incredibly complex procedure involving external components like opengapps) was just a no-go for me.

I don’t know how many customers like me you lost; probably most of them won’t come back here to comment, presumably they are not so numerous.

But the ethics of all this is strongly shocking to me.

In a word, my feeling : You jump into Google’s arms -I leave you.

This may sound aggressive, or like Joe puts it at the top, ‘vocal’, but sincerely it is not, and as post # 87 it won’t even be seen.
It is just, I cannot regress this way -honestly.

I am now investing into Jolla/Sailfish even though they are in an unhealthy state at this moment. Maybe this indeed is a good reason to help.

Hervé
P. S. was it really you, that shipped Fairphone 1 with this color postcard saying ‘if you can’t open it, you don’t own it’ ?
(Naive illustration with a jam pot.)
I found you were twice younger than me at the time.
Now you are twice older.

[Feli]

Well, when I get my FP2 (I ordered late during the crowdfunding period) I will try to find a solution that works to my satisfaction. If I am not successful within the first 14 days I will probably have to send it back because there is no way of knowing when, if ever, there will be an easy solution for me.
I would be very sad if I had to send it back. Paying so much money for a phone was a big step for me, I never thought I would spend so much on a piece of electronic I carry with me and could loose any time.
It was quite an emotional investment for me.

I have the FP1, which will pass on to my husband as his phone is dying for quite some time.
I never had any problems with root.
Reinstalling google apps after each mayor update was a nuissance but a minor one.

[Benedikt]

Well, after reading this thread throughout the day i want to share my opinion too.

i’m very happy FP made the decision to deliver stock android 5.1 with the FP2.
I voted for that option when there was a forum poll about that.
I think it’s the right choice for the beginning of its lifecycle, where a lot of users (not coming from rooted phones) just want to have a user experience they are used to. Like already mentioned above, there was quiet some trouble bringing GApps to FP1, for a lot of users.
Trouble that would keep a big number of possible supporters away from FP in my opinion.
I’m also looking forward to an official android 6.0 update, which would prolong the usability of FP2 remarkebly.
So, having the OPTION to run stock android is good imo.
nevertheless, i understand root is essential for some users and to wait for the open source os could be very frustrating.
Wouldn’t have been a mistake to offer that OSOS from the beginning, like on FP1.

for me personally, a fairphone was never about root or non root. although i understand fairness or freedom as some called it, can also be extended to Software and Privacy.

To me it is about an iportant story about our worldwide economy.
And it is about a lively community that brought 2 phones to live that tell that story and started a movement.

So i very much value the vivid discussions here on the forum, it shows that this community is alive and wants to contribute.

I never had a phone with such a big community involved - its awsome!

[holger1st]

I think the mayor problem is not the cause itself. But like with the broken mayor promise along the back cases (still I didn´t see any official excusion for this or did I just miss?): No one told to the customers the naked truth before order or delivery.

The main problem in my opinion is exactly this kind of communication disaster. Advertising instead of open communication. This can be resolved in the future.

[paulakreuzer]

@holger1st

the broken mayor promise along the back cases (still I didn´t see any official excusion for this or did I just miss?)

I don’t really know of any broken promises about the back cases, but:

@anon90052001

I’m offering you a personal apology for the delays in production and the delay that was caused when the back covers arrived later than expected at our distribution center. Since we’re a crowdfunded project, we don’t have time to build up stock between production and delivery like most companies. Thus this uncomfortable time where shipments are later than expected and clear information is hard to get, especially during the holiday period.

@holger1st

No one told to the customers the naked truth [about root and GAPPS] before order or delivery.

This was in April:

@keesj

Hello,

disclaimer I have not read the full thread.

For FP1 the gapps installer is something that just happened (some might call it a happy coincidence) . Secondly how root was implemented in FP1, specially the early releases was sub optimal(giving root access to anybody).

For FP2 we will provide different flavours of Fairphone OS(and certainly one without gapps). As of today I have not seen a signed contract to ship gapps so I can not even say anything about shipping with google apps.

As to the root and rootable discussion. The default shipping method for FP2 will be using a unlocked bootloader (e.g. users will be able to flash images and kernel, fastboot enabled) and the default image on the phone will use the current Android security model for protection (e.g. we will not “add” root in the shipped and supported installations). For the alternative image (without gapps) we will be able to be more flexible and listen to what the community wants.

What we do not know yet is if this model will work for all the parties. We don’t know yet if we will also need ship FP2 devices with a locked bootloader.

Bold text was highlighted by me.
I think it’s easy to misunderstand announcements to hear what you want to hear, but actually the info was all there already.

[ben]

I am late to the game. So if you are not really interested in that topic, you can probably skip my post.

I think this is a reasonable decision. It aligns with what Sony did ( and in part earned them XDA dev awards), fact bei providing easy installable versions of the Fairphone Open Source OS, Fairphone does more then every manufacturer I know.

@evidemment

So further more, if I understand correctly if we flash the alternative OS no more support? no more updates?

That is not said. The Fairphone Updater is included in the Fairphone Open OS, so there is a technical possibility for Fairphone to provide updates for their official version of FP2 Open Source.

@1tft

Why has FP not asked the community regarding root? You make us very frustrated. It’s a very bad new years surprise!!

I think there are several ways to involve the community more, but in this aspect, i do disagree. Fairphone is not only for Android nerds and developers. And to be fair, you need a little bit of knowledge to really understand the security implications, so i think in this aspect, asking the community is not a good solution. I agree with @keesj reasoning and i think it’s great he makes it so transparent.

@EricS

It was very easy for me to root my Samsung XCover, a company owned, locked phone. It seems it will be a lot more difficult to do this with FP2, a ‘fair’ phone. It don’t think that’s ‘fair’ for the community.

Erm, how to you make that assumption? You obviously found quite easy way to root that phone unofficialy, and I assume there will be ways to root the Fairphone 2 OS, only not provided by FP themselves. No difference to the Samsung.

@Elipsus

“If you can’t open it, you don’t own it” , a always thought it was your credo for both hardware AND software !If i can’t root my phone, i don’t own it AT ALL.

That is quite interesting reasoning. Fairphone even made a own webpage for the Open Source version, provides Sources and all Binaries and will even provide a full system image complied from the same sources everybody could use to build her own OS. That is as open as it gets in Android world.

@Elipsus

Fairphone is not different from any other mobile phone company, you don’t give a **** about the user’s free will.

Errrr what! Let’s please calm down. That is not in anyway related to a users free will!

@1tft

E.g. I don’t need such a closed phone, so I will try to cancel my order…

Good luck finding an more open phone!

@Omnom

For 500€ and this rights I could habe bought an Iphone.

No! There is no http://code.fairphone.com/ for the iPhone. You can’t even install apps from outside the iOS App Store without jailbreaking the iPhone.

@ikarus

It should be the user’s individual decision to take over the responsibility - and live with the consequences, or to decide to stay with the device as is.

@ikarus I do not understand how this is not the users decision: You can decide to install a community or Fairphone build of Fairphone Open OS (http://code.fairphone.com/) with root and open GApps. Then you have everything you want, right?

@evidemment

ROOT MY FP2 CONTINUE TO USE GAPPS IF I WANT AND BE ABLE TO GIVE MY FP1 TO SOMEONE ELSE!

Same as above, install Fairphone Open OS and GApps.

@Mikaciu

For this I’m OK, but as I understood it, this wouldn’t necessarily mean that the OS would not be rootable by default … Thus our sadness on this matter.

Thank you for this summary! As i understand it is just about the official tools and guides Fairphone provides. The Bootloader is unlocked so installing root should actually be easier compared to most phones out there.

@Lidwien

Is there an alternative similar to Titanium Backup Pro that doesn’t require root?

Sadly, there can’t be. Because apps are normally sandboxed and not allowed to access other apps data. You can backup apps and app data using Google Services and restore on another phone. I have never done that, thought.

@TobiasF

Analogy: Nobody would see a Windows PC as an ultimately secure device even if the user is locked out from the Administrator account.

I do not think we can compare Windows and Android in that matter. Windows has a completely different security model. For example, Applications are no locked out of other Apps data. Think about all these stupid ad toolbars, for example, that install into all kinds of browsers. The Android (and iOS) security models are quite different.

@ErikBuelinckx

Now this is certainly telling of the direction Fairphone is taking, and it’s a rather unethical one.

I would strongly disagree! It’s not related to being ethical, but to provide a product that best servers users needs and security is one of these. You speak about freedom, but security is also a very important need. I think it would not be ethical to sacrifice security for the freedom superuser access offers per default. But the freedom you want is provided: You just need to install Fairphone Open OS (code.fairphone.com). I think this solution really well balances the needs of both user groups!

@nohwann

@keesj disappointed because Fairphone is a project and not a company like Apple, Google Or Samsung. This project also supported by community.

Fairphone is social enterprise but still a company. To reach their goals, they also need to make money. And they make money by selling phones.

@lklaus

I’m afraid this wil become a publicity nightmare for Fairphone…

I do not think so. I think most publicity Fairphone gets is for the social and responsibility issues it tries to solve, then aspects like modularity and repairability. I think this topic will calm down.

@adeu

I have also been silently following this conversation so far. As much as I need root on my phone, and I am unhappy not to be able to root it easily, I understand that this is no technical but a legal issue. Sell your phone with gapps preinstalled and you’re simply not allowed to have it rooted.

@adeu Would be great to find any clear sources for that to share?

@danielsjohan

I would be surprised if this was the case. FP1 came with root and GApps. I

Nope, it did not. Supplied out-of-the box and delivered on the product was only the installer.
Legally, this can be quite a difference!

@anon90052001

To get approval to ship a phone with Google services, a phone must pass compatibility tests and one requirement is that they are not shipped with root access

This is so important and clear, that i wonder why it was not mentioned earlier!

[anon9505190]

Hello Fairphoners,

Thanks to Paul for finding good quotings from the past. However I agree to Holger due to delivering first 4000 phones while ignoring the first customers only because they ordered the other color. It is not worth refunding or resending but it leaves bad taste in my mouth (maybe other have different taste about it).

Missing rootable property without having to replace complete FP-OS by a different ROM is something completely different. It was also expected differently by many others including me.
The common thing about both incidences is a lack of communication before. Maybe this happens only because I ordered a phone as a blind bargain or “pig in the poke” that was clear to me when I decided to take part in the first crowd funding process about an expensive phone. Also different ways about expectations cannot be excluded on the long run since may 2015. Again I see no need to react harsh but I am surprised about the best way of communication from FP I never saw before for my beloved new FP but with some decent wormholes in the “big apple”.

never mind

[paulakreuzer]

@anon9505190

The common thing about both incidences is a lack of communication before.

As far as I remember it was always stated that the default shipping option was Android 5.1 with Google Apps and a unlocked bootloader. They said there would be options for Google-Free versions and root, but never that those would be available from the beginning.

Maybe I’m wrong - if so please tell me where they promised anything they don’t plan on providing.

[nohwann]

@ben

Fairphone is social enterprise but still a company. To reach their goals, they also need to make money. And they make money by selling phones.

Thanks Ben. I try to mention the relation between me and Fairphone not just a customer/Consumer-Company relation is.

[mgkoeln]

A Titanium alternative for unrooted phones might be Helium, which saves a lot of data and is supposed to run without root, if you connect the phone to your PC. I’m going to need a few hours, as my FP2 just arrived a few minutes ago. Then I can tell you how it worked.

[Moritz]

@ben thanks for summing up so many issues from this thread. I read through the entire thing and got worried a bit at the beginning because of all the rant, but I’m quite positive now towards the end of the discussion. The crucial quote for me is this one by joe:

@anon90052001

In addition to this work that the internal Fairphone team is working on, developers can use the sources on code.fairphone.com to compile and root the Fairphoen 2 themselves. We welcome this discussion and development on the forum.

The way I see it FP can’t easily provide us with a fool-save method to root our phones, be it out of security considerations or due to legal restrictions. But they can and have paved the way for us to fully appropriate our devices, by giving us an open bootloader and also providing us with the full source code. And they even encourage us on working on solutions to root our phones! Which other manufactuer has done that in the past? I actually don’t know the answer, but I’m rather certain they weren’t many…
Community developers managed to root Samsung and Apple phones, and these companies put a lot of effort into protecting their devices against this kind of hack. If it’s possible to root those phones, it must also be possible to come up with a community-driven solution for the FP2 and I’m quite confident that it won’t be long till our tech-savy fellow Fairphoners will figure something out. And that is a perspective that I can live with very well for now
Best regards to all and kudos to the devs for making a nice phone,

Moritz