If you take this quote out of context, then indeed! Luckily I did follow up with:
Which clarifies that I’m talking about components that provide core functionality. “Pedantically” speaking you’re still right because I forgot to be more precise. But looking at the spirit of our claims we agree a lot more than that.
You’re absolutely right in saying that some issues can be worked around with e.g. a headset. My experience with two-week waiting-for-shipping transition periods though is that in practice I’ll miss every call I get because my BT headset is in the last pocket I check, which unfortunately rarely is the first, and pairing takes long enough for the caller to give up. I’ve had to deal with that during job applications, which was an absolute nightmare on everyone involved. And I can’t call with a secondary microphone. Others definitely couldn’t hear me when the primary was gone.
The fact that a workaround might exist doesn’t mean it’s practical or the fault is acceptable. At some point you take your loss and invest in new. For me that point is definitely when the microphone ceases to function and I can’t replace it anymore. I’ve had a pretty good ride with ~5 years, so my disappointment is not so much driven by a feeling of personal unfair treatment by FP or anything like that. Just gutted to hear that this will probably be how my FP2 dies, as the rest of the phone can last me a bit longer. But heck, one component has to be the first that goes. That being said: others who joined later won’t get the same value for money, and I understand their disappointment.
Which circles us back to the first point: the Fairphone 2’s life ends as soon as its first module stops to provide a core functionality and no longer has spare parts available, it’s as strong as its weakest link. I’ll stop short of defining what a core functionality is and let each decide that for themselves. I suspect being able to make a call is high up on that list.
Luckily I’ve never had my bottom module fail to the point that USB doesn’t work. It’s always just the microphone giving up first.
That’s only half of the important information. The following might be even more important, as - at least I from my point of view - would not want Fairphone to risk being hold accountable for any mishaps with DIY bottom modules. And I am absolutely sure, there are enough people out there willing to make such a thing a court case:
However, we are also a business and as such we are subject to product liability laws and we have to meet standards of professional duty of care,
And that’s - in my opinion - the one (slightly important) difference between soft- and hardware. A bad program usually only bricks your phone (bad luck for the user), while bad constructed hardware is more likely to result in serious damage to things or people (bad luck for a possibly unlimited amount of people).
Therefore, when it comes to critical stuff like steerings for cars or medical devices, I would be a bit hesitant to publish the source code as well.
But - honesty to be served - this might all be due to my lack of expertise in this area in combination with my livid fantasy. And I am willing to learn and stand corrected anytime.
EDIT: @RSpliet@urs_lesse
I agree with you both and just want to point out, that for a while the second-hand market or maybe a batch of refurbished modules (if that’s feasible) might prolong the vanishing of FP2’s from the market.
(And I guess, that - outside of this forum - there are many FP2 owners, that are willing to invest in a new phone when some module breaks after 3 years; even if this module could be replaced. Simply because the newer device offers “so much more”. Some have already been complaining in this forum, that even the FP3 is kind of outdated hardwarewise. Not every Fairphone user is that different from the average phone user out there.)
I usually get the Fairphone newsletters but didn’t receive this email (I already checked the spam folder). Does anyone know where I have to subscribe for it? I’d like to be informed about such changes.
Apart from this the bottom module of my Fairphone is still working well since 5 years. I wonder what the reasons are that it breaks that often for others. Maybe if a reason can be found it may help to do something to avoid the damage? And increase the life of your Fairphones.
The question is: Where does the “right of repair” really end?
Can you actually ensure the safety of the Fairphone owner when you allow to open up the phone? I know, this is a provocative question, but what are we talking about here? A bottom module is just a piece of electronics, it neither explodes itself nor is it connected to the battery. And if there was a way to change a Fairphone into a bomb, nobody would need an original device blueprint for that!
“So, that’s it for now. Any questions? You, Sir!”
(This is a meme made with a screenshot of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96XfmrJMlNU , where Bas van Abel originally quoted himself, asking: “Why doesn’t Nintendo want me to open up their devices?” He wanted to repair the Nintendo DS of his son, but “screwed up screwing the screws”. Nintendo mechanically made sure that the device cannot be opened by someone who uses common tools.)
Here is my guess: Failure is due to physical stress.
The first cause for this is simply the flexible design of the phone. When carrying the phone in a (trouser)pocket, it is bending with every movement. And since the bottom module is designed like a “L”, I would guess, that it is reacting even worse to flexing (especially in the corner), than the straight top-module.
Another important reason, I would consider responsible, is using the phone with a USB cable plugged in, while loading, navigating in the car or on the bike etc. The movement of/tear on the cable is - in my opinion - adding to the physical stress.
That doesn’t mean of course, that this kind of handling is mishandling the phone. It’s rather due to the design flaws of the FP2, that a treatment, that is perfectly fine for all the other phones with glued parts, is causing damage.
Ant that’s the reason for the enhanced sturdy design of the FP3(+).
Remember:
All pure guesswork by me. Though I consider it plausible, I might be wrong. There might be some modules with other troubles or of lower quality as well.
Conclusion Handle with care!
If you want to have long time fun with your Fairphone 2.
I suspect that another factor exacerbating the issue is the vibration motor being on the same module as the microphone. That alone shouldn’t cause issues, but if there’s another weakness (insufficiently sturdy soldering, physical problems that cause the pogo-pins to be disconnected from the PCB, you name it…) this could definitely accelerate a fault.
Hello _Chris. My camera failed last month. I became engaged with the annoyance of FP2 failure when I discovered I could only carry on using it with a downgraded 8MP camera.
I think it was my order of a 8MP camera that precipitated my receipt of the email. I find it incredibly annoying that the information in it is not near the top of the Fairphone webpage, which is why I had no qualms about posting its contents in full.
I fully agree that the microphone appears to have failed much more frequently than the USB port in FP2 bottom modules. My judgement that the USB port poses a bigger problem was actually not based on the frequency of its failure but on the – in my eyes – fewer workaround options there are for the charging port. The one workaround would be to use an external charger for the battery – for my taste this would be a bigger hassle than the microphone workarounds.
Some of us happen to have enough knowledge of electronics and materials to recreate the whole fairphone if they had to.
No, you don’t.
AFAIK, no company ever got successfully sued because it provided the schematics and dimensions of its products to its customers and someone got hurt while using this information.
Infrastructure for electronics development in EU is actually quite decent. (I happen to work in the field.) Brain power is readily available in form of literally thousands of EE graduates every year. PCB production and population is offered as a purely European service – see e.g. eurocircuits.com . Components are shipped worldwide, anyway.
The main catch is that all of this is not cost quite effective when compared to Asian prices. Wages are the most important driver of financial effort. Asian wages continue to be way below their European counterparts. However, wages are of no concern if a project is driven by hobbyists, open hardware style. This is not just a pipe dream. See the achievements of LeoTheCrafter, who was already linked in this thread.
Ok here are some numbers as answer to my email regarding this trust-buster decision.
For me, it’s a very nice answer explaining an awful situation. But I can understand that they ismply couldn’t produce anymore of them.
Dear Alexis,
thanks for your patience!
I hope that the following answers your questions:
The number of Fairphone 2 Bottom Modules we have to offer for sale is less than 100 at the moment of writing. We will need the remaining stock for replacements that are covered by the manufacturing warranty. (this was on March 22)
We sold around a few hundred FP2 Bottom Modules a month. To be able to give you more exact numbers, we have to refer you to the expertise of our colleagues of our research department - more info about that below. At this moment in time we guesstimate that around 50k phones are still up and running, of which about 1/5th or less is still covered by the period.
We have stopped producing Fairphone 2’s in 2018 and stopped selling them in early 2019.
No, we have not started a global impact study on this decision as it would take too many resources to do this. I invite you to consult our [Impact report of 2019], which also covers the impact of the Fairphone 2.
The reason we are unable to produce Fairphone 2 Bottom Modules anymore has to do with the availability of materials and components at sub-suppliers and limited resources. We want to produce more modules, but we simply can’t.
Various scenarios to offer alternatives to those out of warranty have been considered and researched. Unfortunately, these were not feasible to execute.
If you have any more questions about this, feel free to reach out to our research team: To get in touch with them, fill in the form on our Research & Resources Page.
If the team wants to go further with your proposal, they will reply within 10 days. Otherwise, you will not receive a response. In that case, I suggest that you check the following resources:
Thanks again for prioritizing sustainability by supporting Fairphone!
I empathize with the company’s problem but If you (i.e. FP company) are not able to do this, please don’t say that you construct a phone that can be repaired as this is false advertising.
Calling this false advertising is subjective at best. First of all because not every issue can be repaired, sometimes replacement is the only viable solution. Repairability is thus never a binary but rather a gradient. FP allows/allowed me to repair more issues than I would have been able to with other phones.
Secondly, repair helped me stretch my phone’s life to ~5 years, and it’s still going. Previous phones would really start caving after 2-3 years, so that’s an improvement. Others who bought their phone later than 2016 may have been less lucky… but the fact also remains that there’s users like me who have benefited from the repairable design of the phone.
Not being able to sell new bottom modules is a set-back, and I’m disappointed that it has come to this point earlier than I anticipated. But I also feel like there’s too much emotion and too little rational seeping through when shouting such grande claims like “false advertising”.
I bought my phone 3 years ago and I didn’t have to change anything. I bought this because of the claim that it could be repaired (at least in the capacity of the modules and a majority of broken smartphone can be repaired if they had such modules). At least, I don’t think they uphold their part of the deal when they gradually make it less reparable than what was initially possible. And maybe it is easy for you to say if you are used (and able) to change phone every 2-3 years but maybe not everybody is used to that yet an maybe being used to that is a shame.
So I still “shout my grand claim” as you say.
Quoting the fairphone website
We care about designing longer-lasting products that are easier to repair
Maybe I am overdramatic and I don’t understand all the undercurrent under the english language “false advertising” (I am not from english speaking country) and I should have phrased it differently but the idea is still the same.
Still it doesn’t become any more true, when repeating the claim.
The phone is still repairable.
One can change the display with just a screwdriver.
One can change the front camera and the back camera the same way.
There is just one module, that is no longer available.
And, as @RSpliet already pointed out, there were parts you could not repair from the start. There never was a core module available in their online-store for example.
So it’s still easier to repair. It is just not everything, that can be repaired and one less part now.
As you yourself stated “less repairable than what was initially possible.” Not to mention that one might find a spare part on the market place in this forum or somewhere else.
And that’s nothing special regarding Fairphone.
There are most of the time some parts that are breaking more often than expected and that are therefore sold out sooner. Happens with cars and other stuff as well.
And if there are not enough phones (cars etc.) out there, that might be needing the part in the future, you will not find someone to produce the spare parts, as they would have to be sold at unreasonable prices to cover the costs. Something especially a small company as Fairphone can’t do without risking to go out of business.
Don’t forget that second-hand Fairphones will continue to become available as a source of parts on the forum. I had a core module problem, got a second-hand phone with a working core module but a cracked screen and swapped the screen. It also came with a working bottom module which means that I have a spare bottom module.
I completely agree that being used to a 2-3 year lifespan for a phone is a shame. For that exact reason I’m not too disappointed with my FP2, which is approaching the 5 year mark. Could be better, but it’s an improvement. That’s a different perspective from yours, with a phone that’s two years younger, and I appreciate that. If I’m honest, I’m not so sure if I would have bought an FP2 in 2018 myself. Not necessarily for the availability of spare parts (although it turns out this is a significant factor!) but because I believe part of the “durability” package is having the latest-greatest at the time of purchase. SoCs from 2018 would have been more power-efficient, have better modems, and thus had a better chance of surviving until 2023. For that reason I personally think the FP3 was overdue, although I understand their reasoning in only releasing it in Q3 2019
Before FP2, I think the only chance I had for such a long life out of a smartphone was to fork out significantly more than I ever could on an iPhone. And then you’d still have to get lucky with the battery, or replace it for like €80 a pop. Plus support a business that doesn’t quite align with my values.
I only very recently finished my studies, meaning I wasn’t in a financial position to keep replacing phones either. Moreso, I never wanted to be that person, I do get a bit of a kick out of trying to make do with my stuff as long as I can. On the long term its the economical thing to do, not to mention the more ecologically responsible choice. Not that I consider myself a world changer, but not considering durability definitely won’t make me one either.
Actually, come to think of it, I never owned a phone where I couldn’t swap the battery. Palm Treo 650, Palm Pre, HP Pre 3 all had loose batteries. Still, the build quality wasn’t good enough to squeeze more than 3 years out of it, not to mention I bet on the wrong platform at the time and had to make do without even WhatsApp until I got the FP2 in 2016… but I digress!
The FP2 is a very weak constructed phone in comparison to a vast majority of other ones. Therefore, self-repair possibilities are appreciated, but I think that exchanging module by module time after time is not the right way of sustainability, especially in case of the bottom module that does not seem to be repairable at all…
My FP2 microphone stopped working a few hours ago (first time in two and a half years).
I didn’t know the bottom module was not available to sell anymore and I went here to shop for a new one.
Needless to say I am really disappointed, especially as I bragged to my wife about the fact I “just had to order a spare part”…
I looked for a replacement and I only found a crook on Amazon who sell it 60€!
Right now I can use my bluetooth pedestrian kit, but I really don’t get it why Fairphone didn’t improve this piece and kept fresh supply stocks for more time. :’(
