English

Don't buy a FP3 yet if you don't like stock android or Google!

I appreciate your reservation, but this wasn’t an opinion. It’s an unfortunate fact of life. As the good gentleman @BertG already remarked.

I would like to add to this a very broad advice (for everyone!), that I would call “cutting through marketing BS 101”:
Ignore fuzzy abstract concepts and look for the objective, quantifiable and verifiable qualities.

Testament to this and many other forum threads, “fair” is fuzzy, ill-defined, open for (re-)interpretation and susceptible to discussions where the goalposts constantly shift. “Minerals from conflict-free, child-free mines”, “manufactured under more humane conditions”, “repairable”, and “Google-free OS” aren’t, they are claims which you can put a number to, verify and/or disprove. By focusing on the fuzzy, you end up getting overly invested in the thing that matters the least.

2 Likes

Talking about “enslavement“ in this context primarily shows that you are dogmatic. And I do not want to feed the proverbial troll. Instead, I will continue trying to use Android wisely.

1 Like

Thanks for the heads up.
After long suffering with a FP2 it finally died for good.
Now I have to decide my next steps but in the current state a FP3 not attractive.

What happened to the people here? its like
“I have never used the headphone jack so it is good that apple removed it”
all around.

“I don’t want a open os, how dare you to want one? I am good!”
“I don’t use my phone in dark places so it does not bother me that it never turns off”
“I don’t use it for calls so I don’t care about the rough sound”
“I don’t use the fingerprint sensor so I don’t care about extra waste that just wont work in the phone”

You don’t have to defend bad decisions, especially if the results have no bearing for you personally.

Are you better than what you criticize when you define a decision as bad for everyone? :thinking:

1 Like

Do you think its good because it does not affect you?
First they ditched the open OS but I did not care because I don’t want it.
Then they started to use Amazon to host the shop but it did not bother me…

I just kept reading and found a topic about the lettering that felt of:
“But otherwise; I do like this look to be honest.”
I can accept that one personally likes it, but in the same topic others liked that look that they payed for.

I have not said that the problems users have are problems for everyone.
But if one posts a problem and others say “I don’t use X so its not a problem” it feels much like Stockholm syndrome.

Do you think it is a good decision to have only semi working fingerprint sensor? or do you prefer rough sound?

Those are problems that users report. Do you make fun of them?

Yes. I am better because I have never said its about everyone. I have said don’t belittle problems others have just because its not relevant for your own little world.

Maybe there were good reasons for decisions regarding OpenOS and Amazon.
Who are you to pretend that everyone should regard the decisions as bad?
And I don’t believe that anyone decided to use or create hardware that sometimes fails…

1 Like

This apologetic behavior fits the apple customer prejudice better than a customer base that paints itself as viewing things critical and asking questions.

Its not about me - I guess I could not even use a perfect fingerprint sensor because my work is rough on the hands, still I see people having problems and others defending flaws with the argument that they don’t use it.

I don’t think that is critical thinking and it feels awkward.
We should never stop asking questions and point at flaws- thats how a product gets better and broadly accepted.
In my opinion that changed over the years,
I guess you do you and justify, talk about good reasons and that no one decides but it happens like its inevitable.

What good is a fairphone if people start to get a backup phone again because they have problems with it?
I have seen that happening on the forum again and again.
We should not buy more but fair - it should be less and fair.
I went back to button phone from 2010ish after my only other phone, FP2 failed.

I would hate to see people buying twice because fans defend flaws in a product just because they don’t see it as a flaw.
I reported my problems with the FP2 Display and it got changed because enough spoke up.
The case got changed because people reported how it disintegrated over time.

If its a fair question and not obscure that should be welcomed and viewed as something to improve on.
And I don’t think any of the 5(6) flaws I have mentioned is obscure.
If you think otherwise I will accept that.

@ angry_dodo

What is wrong with Fairphone using Amazon servers? How is it related to the fairness of used minerals and to have workers better treated?

Fairphone supports /e/ in a partnership so you can have a Google-free OS. Why do you also need Fairphone Open OS?

If something does not work on your Fairphone, you can ask the support and they replace the bad component if necessary like the back of the phone if some letters fell. I lost the letters and prefer not to ask a new back since it would be a waste of plastic for something that does not prevent me from using my phone.

The only thing bothering me is the fingerprint reader that is not always working immediately but I observed if I first press the power button to wake the phone up (light the screen but not turn the phone on :wink:) then the fingerprint reader works 95 % of cases (my fingers are to blame for the missing 5 %). Is it perfect? No. Can I live with it? Yes but this is my choice.

If we compare the number of sales and the complaints here, it seems some phones have defects and a large majority not. This is unfortunately normal when you produce something even if the number of bad products should be zero. And this increases when you do something fancy like Fairphone does.

1 Like

I can’t find apologetic behavior in my posts. I was rather reflecting your arguments.
As I’ve not found answers addressing what I’ve written so it seems to lead nowhere and I’ll leave it now where it is.

1 Like

I think all of this is pretty rich coming from someone who doesn’t own an FP3 but judges it based on the forum posts. In general, people will come to a forum to report a problem, not to share their good experiences, so just reading the messages here gives the false impression that everyone has issues with their Fairphone, when in truth, the majority of FP3 users isn’t on here. This is further stressed by the fact dat the problems reported aren’t universally experienced by all users. For example, my finger print sensor works every time, as do my headphones and my Bluetooth connectivity with my car. I also have no problem with audio quality during calls. Actually, I’m one of those users that did just show up to rave about this phone. The only problem I admit having is the letters in the back coming off. But I’m dead serious when I say I don’t find that a ‘real’ problem because I make sure to use products for as long as they are in working order, no matter what they look like.

And again, how problematic these things are does depend on the user and their motivations for using the phone. There is no objective way to measure how big these problems are to each individual. And in a sense, maybe it is like iPhone users. I am invested in sticking to this phone. Not so I can wave it around in everybody’s faces like the average iPhone user, but because there is no alternative on the market that produces a phone that meets my ideals. To me, buying a new Samsung would just not feel right even if it works better, has more features and draws everyone’s attention to my beautiful new phone with way to many camera lenses and mega pixels. I would also be carrying the weight of materials unfairly won and bought and factory workers exploited to satisfy my needs as well as the planet straining to survive while we buy new phones every year, and that would just sit too heavy in my pocket, no matter how much smaller the phone would be.

Edit: in fact, if we’re talking Stockholm syndrome, I would like to see other phone users explain away this massive flaw that all their phones have in common.

8 Likes

Where do you get it, that one thinks something is good, that’s not affecting him/her? Just from stating the own experience and opinion? Everyone - in my opinion - is entitled to say what he/she feels like, as long as one is acting polite and considerate and not spamming or trolling.
Therefore I don’t mind others speaking their differing opinion and I try to not be too judgemental in assessing such opinions and not assume any hidden motives.

Plus: everything @Linn has posted above.

1 Like

Please, do. Explain the flaw that your Samsung S3, Samsung S5, Ipod, e-reader and your switch have.

Remember:

But I shall not speak up why I have problems with the product you consume and are happy with.

I don’t think just because FP aims to be less evil than others it should be immune to critique.
Its like meat eaters who only eat “happy” cows -I hope I got only trolled by you.

And Bert, I got it from posts scattered across here.
And I feel like that changed over the years to what I would expect from apple fans.
Will not post public the links because, I am not pointing at users, but I wanted to express a feeling I got reading here.

Thanks hirntot for the Post, I will postpone my decisions and not consume in the meantime.
Sorry if my reasoning hurts anyone.

I think a lot of us here have been FP customers for a while, so we know their products are experimental and we expect them to fail in new and exciting ways - at this point, when letters fall off, a bunch of us consider that part of the FP charm. Happily, FP has been quite good in replacing broken parts, producing battery shims, revising screens, et cetera.

And while we can try to communicate that attitude to new or prospective users, it cannot be expected of anyone to just shrug and laugh at defects the way we’ve been doing for a couple of years. It can and has come across as people dismissing defects because who needs that feature anyway. It doesn’t occur often, but it does happen and it’s not helpful. There are plenty of people for whom a fingerprint sensor or a notification LED is the only way they can reasonably use a smartphone (even though the first is terrible security), so when they buy a phone with a fingerprint sensor or an LED, it has to work.

At the end of the day, if you receive a broken device or if it breaks within the warranty period, you have the right to get it fixed or to get a new one. The FP3 does not appear to have any universal defects, just resolvable issues affecting a small number of people. That includes letters falling off the back cover - it’s just that a lot of people here, most of whom are enthusiasts, consider it part of the aforementioned charm or just don’t care. That said, you do sometimes run into the odd person who doesn’t want to repair their own phone and just wants to be angry online - a more common occurrence than FP apologetics, in my experience.

As for the Amazon servers: it definitely doesn’t jive with Fairphone’s charter. Amazon treats their workers like slaves and their owner is the richest man in all of history, so Fairphone should want nothing to do with them. No excuses for that. Most of the Internet is now owned by this execrable corporation and non-Amazon solutions are expensive and complicated, but I agree Fairphone should switch to a host that doesn’t kill its workers for profit.

5 Likes

The flaw I meant is the flaw I stated directly above in the exact same post.

I stand by my point that it is strange to judge a device you haven’t used yourself. As I said, all problems you pointed out are non-existent in my phone. You are judging the phone by compiling all problems some users are facing individually. But I I’ll opt out now, because I don’t enjoy taking the time to write an elaborate response to something and then having to deal with someone responding to only half or not having read very thoroughly (as illustrated by your questions about the nature of the flaws of other devices, which I clearly illustrated in the exact same post).

2 Likes

I don’t think workers at AWS are treated in a bad way since we talk about servers used by Fairphone :wink:

If you talk about the whole Amazon company, yes people working in warehouses could be better treated but is their situation worse than the one of workers from the factory producing Fairphones? Answer is no…

1 Like

Citation needed. I’ve read the news reports about what goes on in Amazon’s warehouses - I sure hope that this does not reflect the working conditions at the factories that Fairphone works with!

The underlying idea of Fairphone is to attempt to make ethical choices about who to pay to make their phones - or host their website. In terms of production, FP has done the best they can - they readily admit we’ve still a long way to go, but this is all they can do to produce a fairer phone without going bankrupt under our current economic system. In terms of hosting, there are plenty of alternate options and FP can easily do far better.

4 Likes

Thanks for showing a understanding for the problem I have with communication.
Others seemed to think that those examples of flaws I gave are my problem with the Product.
It is the way others (some) are dismissing problems because they don’t experience them which I don’t like.

After having the FP2 as my only smartphone ever for 4 years I expect and tolerate a lot,
but I wished for more openness on the software side of things, this is a point that hopefully will go away over time but it is one that I can judge for myself without having it my hand.

Let’s maybe try to keep it on topic, discussing amazon here is slightly derailing :slight_smile:
Glad it has been noticed as something to improve though

1 Like

While I get your point, it is a bit late to complain about non-free software; since the FP3 can already be purchased with /e/ installed.
And even if it’s not sold by Fairphone direct, it’s due to a Fairphone partnership. Demanding more, just for principle, is beyond me.

???
Fairphone anounced from the beginning, that they were looking into possiblities to get a Google-free OS on the FP3.
So, it took about 6 months, where is the problem. Fairphone Open for the FP2 wasn’t available from the start either.

2 Likes

I don’t have any citations to provide but, in Europe, I see that workers are paid, have a limited a number of hours, have vacations, can profit of a social system and can even win a trial against Amazon like it happened in France about the lack of protection against covid-19 in warehouses. For sure, they could always be paid more and have easier conditions but don’t forget it is a job without qualifications.

At the end, I did some line-work as a student in a factory a long time ago and trust me that the conditions in Amazon warehouses are very close to the ones I lived and that were daily for people working there (in France).